• CyborgMarx [any, any]
    ·
    edit-2
    4 years ago

    Ironically, many of these "ultra leftists" inexplicably turn into socdems when it comes to the domestic politics of their own countries

    • HumanBehaviorByBjork [any, undecided]
      ·
      4 years ago

      organizing reading groups and posting is the only acceptable praxis. anything else is either ultraleft adventurism or social-democratic fascism

      • MarxMadness [comrade/them]
        ·
        4 years ago

        social-democratic fascism

        There's definitely a strain of "Stalin did nothing wrong but AOC's a fascist" leftist that I don't see building any sort of mass socialist movement in the U.S.

        • HumanBehaviorByBjork [any, undecided]
          ·
          4 years ago

          i like to bother M-Ls, but the fact is every tendency has their way of logically justifying our collective paralysis in the face of widespread impending doom

          • MarxMadness [comrade/them]
            ·
            4 years ago

            That's why it's so frustrating to see shit slinging (not mere criticism) directed at people at least trying to move in the right direction. No one on the left or anywhere near the left has a proven answer. If they did, the left would be a lot more powerful than it is today. So why be pissy to those who are at least giving something a go?

            We should have a bias toward people who are taking action, because inaction isn't going to cut it, and no one can really say for sure if a given action is bad.

    • aws0me [none/use name]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Leftcoms are usually the ones beiing referred to as ultras and they are not socdems. Ironically it is China stans who are actually socdems since they support socdem govts of China, Vietnam, Bolivia, Venezuela etc. The anarchists who decry china mostly have incoherent political views that are usually socdem economically.

        • aws0me [none/use name]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Do you think that these countries are socialist because they say so? Not only is capitalism the dominant mode of production in these countries, and not only is there no independent worker movement with any real power, but also the common understanding of socialism in these countries is just state-ownership. Like all the debates in these countries are between nationalization and private ownership.

          • Redlibrary1917 [he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            It's good that there is no "independent worker movement" given what "independent worker movements" have done to Socialist countries such as Poland.

            • aws0me [none/use name]
              ·
              4 years ago

              First of all, why do you think there was discontent among the working class in Eastern Bloc states? Why is it that a country literally ruled by the working class(allegedly) would have working class people striking in it and getting arrested for it?

              The fall of ""communism"" in Poland is not something I lose sleep over, as it was just state capitalism. It has no relation whatsoever to the actual socialist project, and in the future, the same opportunism of "nationalization is socialism bro trust me", will once again come up and will have to be fought against.

              • Redlibrary1917 [he/him]
                ·
                edit-2
                4 years ago

                Ok idealist.

                I don't even know where to begin, so I suggest you read a book. The idea that protests are inherently good or that a proper Socialist government would somehow be immune to discontent are pure idealist nonsense.

                I don't care about whatever ludicrous purist idea of Socialism that has never existed you subscribe to, it's utterly irrelevant to history and the International Proletarian Movement. It seems like you're trying to position yourself as some Leftcom when you're very obviously just a RadLib who still believes all the bullshit you were fed as a Liberal.

                • aws0me [none/use name]
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  The idea that protests are inherently good

                  Never said this.

                  proper Socialist government would somehow be immune to discontent are pure idealist nonsense.

                  What is proper socialist here? You call me idealist, but you have no material analysis of what makes a government "socialist". Is it enough to call itself socialist and have red flags? Is it enough to provide social services to everyone and guarantee employment? Is it that they nationalized everything while maintaining the capitalist mode of production?

                  I don’t care about whatever ludicrous purist idea of Socialism that has never existed you subscribe to,

                  Literally a right wing argument. Socialism hasnt existed yet so it is ludicrous.

                  it’s utterly irrelevant to history

                  What does this mean lol

                  and the International Proletarian Movement

                  Where can I contact this movement, I would like to join it. On a more serious note, there is no international movement.

                  It seems like you’re trying to position yourself as some Leftcom when you’re very obviously just a RadLib who still believes all the bullshit you were fed as a Liberal.

                  I used to be an ML actually. I used to believe eveything you believe until like 2 years ago.