I'm on season three of this show so far and I'm legit pissed at you guys. Why did no one tell me how great this show is! I've never watched star trek before but my whole life all I've ever heard is Kirk vs picard. I didn't even know there was a black man in charge of the ship running things.I haven't watched the of series or new generation but I'm gonna assume DS9 is way better than any other star trek series. benjamin Sisko is the best captain, and anyone who thinks different is a lib. Also the way they build on stuff is great. Like what the hell is going on with the dominion. They already seem way more advanced than anything the federation has. I have no idea how Sisko and company can beat them, it's really interesting. I had low expectations for a 90s show but damn it's hype as all hell. Like I said I'm only on season 3 but I can't wait to see how they deal with all the shit they got going on.
Edit: I just saw there's a star trek Sunday here but fuck it I'm inspired to post now. If you gotta remove this post I get it.
:rommunism:
Deep Based Nine
I hope you're strapped in for "Past Tense I & II" because the posadism rocket is taking off and it don't stop 'til FALGSC.
Zephram Cochrane is 33 years old in First Contact and looks 70. Nuclear Winter hits you fast.
I think the conventional wisdom, although always disputed, is that TNG is the best place to start, TOS is too old, DS9 is the best overall, VOY is worth watching but weak, ENT is trash, and nothing else is canon
Why do you think he's a deontologist? He doesn't even do a single root canal in the whole series :theory-gary:
Plus there are major characters in both that it's good to get introduced to chronologically
A guide:
TOS: Enlightened pluralism
TNG: Utopian socialism
DS9: Marxist critique of utopian socialism
VOY: Social fascism
ENT: Liberal neo-conservative triumphalism
DIS: Doomer escapism
PIC: Reactionary transhumanism
LD: Partially automated gay luxury space communism
I agree pretty much 100%.
I watched in the order TNG, VOY, DS9, ENT - which is the order I recommend to people (though ENT is optional) because:- with TNG you get the 'standard' ST experience; it sets the tone, & the setting and has good, fun characters and plot arcs and a variable gamut of filler episodes.
- following with VOY, you don't get the whiplash of going from a spacefaring, every-week-a-new-escapade show to the suddenly stationary environment and more drama-heavy DS9, and you have the general goofy fun that comes with the delta quadrant. Plus, when you finish Voyager, you get to move on from the anticlimactic finale rather than have that be the lasting taste of ST in your mouth.
- then moving onto DS9, you have the pièce de résistance - definitely a slow burn, and takes a little getting used to vis-a-vis transitioning from crews of adventuring explorers to the more mundane lives of a station crew/planetary ambassadors/spiritual emissaries etc., but ultimately has the best long-running plot arcs, arguably the best characters & development, and a satisfactory finale that you can close the book on.
You can then also do what i did, which is watch the TNG films and despair, cry at the end of Nemesis, panic, watch ENT as a salve and ultimately be disappointed.
It's not too bad - it definitely strays close to the edge of early-2000s tv cheese a number of times (decon. scenes can fuck off, p&ty), but it also feels rushed and a little bit not-star trekky. at the very least, it is definitely canon unlike anything put out thereafter.The last season and a half of ENT is pretty good, ignoring the last episode.
They were going to do the Romulan war too if they were not cancelled, and heavily base it on the awesome Diane Duane novels (Romulans felt emotions should be felt and channeled through social ritual instead of internally suppressed and emigrated from Vulcan in slower than light starships). Picard tried to rebase the Romulans on this too but went for the elf rather than the original Roman/Chinese aesthetic and fucked it up for everyone.
No it isn't. From the start the characters are light years more hateable than any other crew. The cast of 5 characters the show cares about, smaller than previous shows, features 2 who are unbearable, 2 barely tolerable, and one Phlox. Bacula is a lovable actor, but Archer is so short of Sisko or Picard or even Kirk, his obvious model. Maybe a minor gripe, but the ship is mostly male because space is apparently a man's game. Nevertheless awful romantic plots take up extraordinary amounts of energy. At one point Space 9/11 happens to Earth and "this time, it's personal." This causes camo troops to board the Enterprise, everyone sucks them off for how cool they are at being operators, and everyone on the ship gets pissed and xenobhobic. Immediately there is a torture justification scene. The whole ship goes genocidal for revenge.
There are good moments in the show no doubt; Phlox asking trip to fuck his wife, the ferengi episode with Neelix, but overall it's pretty eye-bleedingly bad
why won't you fuck my wife Trip? Is there something wrong with my wife? Are you calling my wife ugly Trip? Why won't you make love to my gorgeous wife?
Despite the weakness of the show overall, probably my top Star Trek moment
Yeah, true. It's not at all comparable to DS9 and TNG. Would you say ENT is worse than the recent films or DISCO?
Nah it's 'better' than the Abrams films in the sense that it is truer to the Star Trek vibe. Not seen Disco but from what I hear it has the same problem, being a different breed of action sci-fi.
I think they described the hierarchy pretty well in the first comment:
ENT is trash, and nothing else is canon
:quark: Quark's time travel episode to the US is one of my favorite episodes
I envy you, watching DS9 for the first time. A lot of people will say DS9 is the best and I agree, but TNG is good too once you're finished. Just be aware that TNG doesn't have much in the way of season long arcs that DS9 does, so it's a bit of a different experience but still really good.
Yeah my experience with TNG was that it had more really great episodes than DS9 but DS9's average was better overall.
I never ever stopped talking about how great DS9 is. I've put in lots of effort into DA9 propaganda.
It gets way better lmao.
DS9 is amazing, I like TNG more but they are both fantastic
Hoo boy are you in for a ride! My favorite Trek is DS9, but Lower Decks is close.
oddly enough it stays truer to the FALGSC vision of the Federation than any of the other newer treks.
It's the inverse of traditional Trek; funny interpersonal moments peppered with sci-fi action. It's also the most proletarian Trek by far since the focus is on a group of lower-deckers on a minor Starfleet ship and their struggles with everyday duties. Despite being an over the top mature animation (mostly for space violence and innuendo), it's fantastic, hilarious Trek made with love that fans should appreciate.
Black man as captain, alien woman as first officer, and the cis white male suffers the most throughout the series. Way ahead of its time!
Also Trans and bi undertones: Jadzia and Garak/Bashir
It just gets better and better for the most part. You're in for a great time.
Once you've finished DS9, watch Babylon 5. Very similar vibe once it gets rolling, though it somehow has an even worse first season.
Also watch The Orville. He pitched it as "Family Guy in Space" and then just wrote TNG Season 8-9 instead with a few dick jokes thrown in.
For all the good that is in DS9, especially in some episodes like Past Tense (1 and 2), there is an underlying problem with DS9 that's always sit badly with me and that is how it approaches war ideologically. That by war existing as a current event, it creates a persmisivness of actions that would in peace time be seen as inhumane. But more than that, it ultimately in presentation presents a neoliberal conclusion to the presentation of how that permisivness of inhumane actions is approached: They get results, therefore they are allowed, and overlooked in favor of those results. This is the whole conclusion of In the Pale Moonlight. Ignore the presentation and style, look at the presented conclusion. "The ends justify the means".
Now this is even addressed, in some part, in "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges". Bashir is disgusted with Admiral Ross and the Federation and that they'd do such things...and that's where it all stops. You get Sloan appearing to Bashir at the end of the episode saying how the Federation needs men like him. Basically who "Get things done." This is the end messeage of any episode in relation to the Dominion War "The ends justify the means." No matter how unethical, how abhorrent.
This 90s attitued is what got so many of us 80s/90s kids embracing that idea. And applyign it to real life. The rest of us Bashirs who were appaled at what the former group would do, just ended up blackpilled.
Not all of Season 1 though.
S1E1 Encounter At Farpoint should be watched. I forget what number it is but Skin Of Evil should be next. Finally, watch S1E26, The Neutral Zone should be last, which has Picard going up against a Capitalist while dealing with the reemergence of the Romulans.
S2 was trash tho. Skip that entirely.
So those three episodes and then skip S2? I'm trying to get my roommate into this shit and they hate most Sci-Fi.
