A trans Palestinian twitter user was posting that it didnt sit right with her and we had a little (polite) discussion about it.

  • PorkrollPosadist [he/him, they/them]M
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    edit-2
    10 months ago

    Genocide is a process. The important thing is to recognize the mechanisms. Waiting until some arbitrary number of people (say, 80%) are exterminated before giving it the official embossed and perforated genocide stamp is an entirely useless and navel gazing act. At the end of the day, the semantics are immaterial. It is the mechanisms which must be identified and combated, and they must be combated long before the editorial boards of the bourgeois papers start writing opinion pieces 10 years ex post facto saying "aww shucks, it really is a tragedy we allowed this to happen."

  • kristina [she/her]
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    edit-2
    10 months ago

    I've been doing that shit for a while now, and nah it's totally a genocide even if it's not like, a bombing campaign and is just the quiet separation, relocation, and traumatization of families. The mode for a specifically trans or queer genocide will always be different than ethnic genocides, we are evenly distributed across every country on the planet, ethnicities concentrate in specific regions that can be targeted militarily.

      • kristina [she/her]
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        10 months ago

        Its not 'beginnings'. Its already happened, Florida and Texas are forcing parents of trans children to relocate or be separated. There is equal urgency, both are genocides, one is explosive, one is quiet (as is typical for queer genocide). Comparing severity only does a disservice to both.

        https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trans-kids-flee-united-states-safety_n_654c44c7e4b088d9a74d2028

        But Grey’s happy existence ended seemingly overnight when he testified in the Texas Legislature against a 2021 bill seeking to ban gender-affirming care for minors. Anti-trans activists showed up at the family’s door after their home address was shared online, and Lauren said men with assault rifles tailed her when she was driving and tried to follow her to work. Grey was suddenly troubled by a new guilt, the fear he had brought all this down upon him. “The thing they hate about her is me,” he thought to himself. “They’re going after her because of me.”

        • Wakmrow [he/him]
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          10 months ago

          I didn't say that to minimize it. It's clear that the genocide in Palestine is more overt.

          • kristina [she/her]
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            10 months ago

            Idk how you can say 'one is urgent' and say it isn't minimizing

            • Wakmrow [he/him]
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              10 months ago

              Okay one has bombs being dropped. Is that more clear?

  • SerLava [he/him]
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    edit-2
    10 months ago

    I don't think it's in bad taste, the genocide in Gaza is at a much later and more intense stage, but the conservatives are fucking trying, they're clearly trying. It's at an ambiguous early stage in many respects, but it is very much already happening. The full force of it is more likely to be stopped and is also farther away. Importantly, the intent is absolutely here.

  • SwitchyWitchyandBitchy [she/her]
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    10 months ago

    Beginning? Until somewhat recently being trans in this country was all but a death sentence and for many still is. Over the past few decades that has been getting better for us and I’m actually in a relatively safe place. What’s going on in those states feels more like an attempt to return to the days where our suppression and eradication was the status quo. It is not the beginning but the end unless the US goes full fash (look up Magnus Hirschfeld and the institute he founded).

    The only ways I see it being insensitive is that most trans people in the us don’t currently experience anything like the horrors that Palestinians do. Also calling it the beginning is ignoring what has been going on in this puritanical hellhole since it’s inception.

  • Maoo [none/use name]
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    10 months ago

    I think the invitation to contrast existential oppressions is risky because so many people subscribe to binary thinking. They start a thought process of, say, "X is a genocide and I think Y is a lesser oppression, so it's not genocide". Is that a useful or helpful thought process? I don't think so.

    Instead, we should emphasize our commonalities. Your Twitter user is both Palestinian and trans, facing both oppressions. They come, fundamentally, from the same sources, from capitalism, whether it's reinforcing normative gender identity to build a false consciousness for its own protection (fascism) or creating Lebensraum for its ethnic supremacists carrying out an ethnic cleansing project in the interests of empire (fascism and imperialism). Both are reactionary and violent. Both rely on appeals to ancient authority and tradition to justify their violence. Both rely on the dehumanization of their targets. Both will only be opposed through solidarity and building power as durably and quickly as we can.

  • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
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    edit-2
    10 months ago

    I feel like whenever capitalists propagandists cynically use the term genocide no one seems to act like its wrong. When the left uses the term correctly to refer to programs of systemic eradication of people it always gets questioned.

    They call Ukraine a genocide and invented one about Uighurs. They even tried inventing appropriating concept of cultural genocide because the Uighur thing couldn't hold up, and people ate it up without question.

    The left couldn't even call the concentration camps on the US border concentration camps without libs getting up in arms that it "diminished the real concentration camps" or something like that.

    We're the only ones using the terms correctly.

    • ProfessorOwl_PhD [any]
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      10 months ago

      They even tried inventing the concept of "cultural genocide"

      Appropriating maybe, but not inventing - Cultural genocide is a well established concept especially in relation to the forced assimilation of native populations, they just lied about it happening.

  • What_Religion_R_They [none/use name]
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    10 months ago

    I don't live in the US and inshaallah I never will, but I've seen that comparison recently and it did make me cringe a lil inside. I feel like they're in different stages, and are themselves different (anyone can be trans, not anyone can be Palestinian - the origin of the identity is somewhat different?), but the intent for both is there. But I think my issue with it comes from the fact that it is fundamentally an America-first framing. Maybe I'm articulating it incorrectly, I'll elaborate more after I wake up from my nap.

    • robot_dog_with_gun [they/them]
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      10 months ago

      i'm not gonna correct anyone using the word that way but it's mildly self-undermining the same way "born that way" rhetoric is a little sus.

      i guess if there's a genocide equivalent for groups that aren't an ethnicity or nation then it would apply to what christofascists are trying to do.

      lol did x-men comics ever try to call extermination a mutant genocide? there's a similar "anyone can be ___"

  • dronebama [none/use name]
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    10 months ago

    No child trans genocide is real and on equal footing with all the other genocides. We shouldn’t debate what genocide is worse but instead try to find solidarity with the lgbt and the Islamic community.

  • Zodiark
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    edit-2
    2 months ago

    deleted by creator

  • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]
    hexagon
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    10 months ago

    Said Twitter user also said that she felt that election results are showing that people roundly reject those beginning stages.

    • SerLava [he/him]
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      10 months ago

      If it escalates it will escalate regionally :(

      • JohnBrownNote [comrade/them, des/pair]
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        10 months ago

        freikorps and pogroms

        trans-gun if you feel comfortable.

        :trans-artillery: if you don't feel up to a firearm and you can pass a federal background check.

    • Maoo [none/use name]
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      10 months ago

      It's still a very difficult and ongoing struggle. I don't need to quash her optimism but as comrades it is still code red in the need for solidarity, normalization, and protecting one another. Liberals are fairweather friends at best and the right wing states didn't get substantially better in the last few days.

  • TreadOnMe [none/use name]
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    edit-2
    10 months ago

    From a purely academic standpoint (and therefore useless) It depends. For my money, I'd say that what the U.S. right (and to a lesser extent Democrats) is attempting to engage in is the outright social murder of the trans community, in particular attempting to make supporting them and their causes a football and wedge to divide voting rightwing and liberal (same thing I know) 'moderates'. While murder and assault is tacitly approved by the cop culture, it is not outright approved by the majority of people in the U.S.

    However, if this could easily proceed into a direct genocide or sexual minority cleansing should things get worse. It wouldn't be unprecedented, as the LGBTQ community arguably already suffered from such cleansing policies previously in the 80's during the AIDS crisis (there are horrifying pictures of just rows and rows of beds along hallways in SF wards during the peak of the crisis, with no emergency support and even outright denial from the federal government).

    This is one of the things that I personally like to point to when liberals wring their hands about things 'getting worse' for the LGBT community. It already happened, and the strong activist community was a result of those policies! Things were already much, much, worse and you folks did absolutely nothing except acknowledge the suffering decades later, your lukewarm support cannot be relied upon in times of crisis. LGBT communities will have to figure out ways to protect their own, and it is ultimately better that they do so than rely on fairweather liberals. Is it better to have the government on your side? Sure! But not when that government tries to make that support conditional on you also supporting crimes against humanity overseas.

  • daisy
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    edit-2
    10 months ago

    Unless there's a specific ethnic group being attacked, maybe "persecution" could be a more appropriate word?

    Edit: I've been thinking a bit more. I think the real problem is that "genocide" has changed from being a type of atrocity to a measure of scale of atrocity.

  • footfaults [none/use name]
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    10 months ago

    I'd just be arguing semantics but I feel like it's the "social murder of Trans people"? I feel like that conveys the active and passive parts of what they are doing, while saying genocide just emphasizes the active part which isn't the full picture? I dunno, I feel like saying social murder keeps smuglord from doing an argument about how many people it takes to become a genocide, etc etc