:fidel-salute:
Legit the best candidate of 2020, man was a hero and braver than any major US politician in some 50 years. Never for a second forgot that the victims of our wars are the people of those countries, and the compassion he felt for them is awe inspiring
We still can, it was never an electoral path, he knew that more than anyone. The internal politics of the empire are never as important as what we do to remain on top, dedicate ourselves to fighting that above everything else
The left really has to give up the idea that insignificant candidates who say the right things are worth high praise. It's easy to say the right things when you never had anything close to a chance, and when there's no mainstream attention on you anyways.
Who we should be praising are candidates who are competitive, or who at least get leftist ideas into the mainstream and make a compelling case for them. That's what's hard to do, and doing that even without perfect politics is a lot better than having perfect politics in a place where no one listens to you.
Except a guy like Gravel managed to get on the debate stage. He also leaked the Pentagon Papers which is more significant than most any "competitive candidate" has done. It also is not easy to say the right things when you are in office, but you can. What has being competitive gotten the left here? Acquiescing to Biden? brutalized by Truman? Anarchism made seditionist?
Becoming governor is not out of the mainstream, but more than that, you can say the right things and not get anywhere in bourgeois electoralism (oh no not the thing the left puts little value into) while causing some change by taking a stand.
People respect that a hell of a lot more than kowtowing to war criminals, and when you get the chance to do something unpopular in DC but that may save lives, you have done more good than all the compromises. I'd rather politicians who cant win president but are willing to put their neck on the line when it matters most, which is kinda the case when it comes to exposing war crimes and framing things correctly.
You really saying we shouldn't be praising that, but instead should really praise bending the knee for no concessions? If you can look at exposing the Pentagon papers and say "hmmm it would've been better to do nothing and then try to pass a bipartisan infrastructure bill that will be gutted first" then I don't know what to tell you except that I am pretty sure the people of Vietnam appreciate the former more than the later, same goes for Iraq.
If competing means murdering families in bombing raids, then you are not talking about a leftist. I'd rather not call child killers my buddies, and I think that higher loyalty to values matters more than "tact" for the sake of scraps and a punch in the gut. But regardless this point is silly to make when the example is the guy who leaked the Pentagon papers, talking about "no one listens to you" in that context is laughable
Except a guy like Gravel managed to get on the debate stage. He also leaked the Pentagon Papers
All that's good and should be commended, but we're talking about 2020.
When the heck did we decide that? We are in 2021 as well and all the competitiveness in 2020 got us zilch
The comment I responded to called him the best candidate of 2020.
counterpoint: the only candidates capable of changing anything are embedded with militant union chapters with good structure or with an independent party or party-like entity
its also important for this candidate to unite the left by pulling everyone to the same table and use real marxist tactics- big lol
Imagine having such brainworms that in a post about someone's death and in responce to a comment praising him ,without anyone opening that conversation, you feel the need to jump in to complain and remind that leftists should first and foremost praise and support our precious "electable" socdems instead who do THE CORRECT AND HARDER THING actualy.
Its distressing that some "leftists" are so insecure of other leftists becoming even slightly disillusioned of electoralism ,specificaly through entryist and ever capitulating socdems, as a good strategy for the left ,that they would start obsessively defending it in response to this fucking comment in the post of a good man's death
Legit the best candidate of 2020, man was a hero and braver than any major US politician in some 50 years. Never for a second forgot that the victims of our wars are the people of those countries, and the compassion he felt for them is awe inspiring
And not just that, trying to make the point of their CORRECT AND EFFECTIVE approach against this man's lifes work and praxis
without anyone opening that conversation
Guess you didn't read the comment I responded to, which called him the best candidate of 2020. The guy did more good than most in his position, but that's a ludicrous take for anyone serious about winning anything.
Good thing Bernie won eh? Once again a lot of us are not wonks, we don't buy into electoral politics. Your compromises and justifying war crimes in order to get nothing in return are not our politics. How don't you get that?
Bernie didn't win, but last summer we saw major, nationwide direct action fail to achieve anything, and a few months ago we saw a major unionization push at Amazon fail, too. Are you as critical of those strategies as you are of electoral politics?
So how does not winning elections make one better than anti-imperialist work and spurring on the end of the Vietnam war? Cause you seem fixated upon everything being a litigation on electoralism, as if everyone here just works from the assumption that that is viable or even preferable. The "best" candidate is the best person who was candidate, which was Gravel. How is that fucking objectionable in your mind when your alternative LOST? The compromise lost and didn't have the moral framework that comes with a Gravel race.
Gotta love the radlib response of "oh really, then name your opinion on every union strike" when people dont play ball with your mighty elections. You act incensed and have a screed about "the left" and how we must abandon such and such because your prescriptions etc, all because the mention of someone uncompromising being celebrated and preferred. You somehow pull a "I am the one true leftist" _and said the left is to obsessed with purity and ideals.
Does a ballot box have your family kidnapped or something? Or can the rest of us have subjective opinions about who is the best candidate without you going all :very-intelligent:
And to answer the question that no one was offering for you to ask; direct action is not so much the point as preferring staunch anti-imperialism in any form over cynical compromises and bending the knee to war criminals. Be it in elections (cause again Gravel was senator, your screed makes even less sense to use here when the guy DID win elections and was an elected official) or outside of them. In office he risked losing his office in order to do what was right, on the debate stage he called those ghouls war criminals to their faces. Yeah that IS what I would consider the best. I find that preferable to the alternative, both in elections and direct action etc. You decided, on a post about the passing of a dedicated anti-imperialist who helped end the Vietnam war, to complain that about leftists who value anti-imperialism too much and consider ending genocidal wars to be a greater accomplishment than losing elections with concessions. If the dichotomy that underpins everything in your mind is "strikes vs bourgeoise elections" then we are not operating in the same universe. And frankly I dont give a shit what your grievance is with me and others appreciating anti-imperialism or what your problem with "the left" is
Nice rant; too bad it doesn't answer the extremely simple question I asked.
You can't stop yourself from being a dick on a post about a good man's death? The world does not revolve around you. You are no owed a debate, you want a simple answer? Your question assumes that there needs to be a dichotomy there or even between strikes and doing what Gravel did. Your question is like asking "why is the sky sandpaper?" and then acting indignant when people dont give you a direct answer.
My answer is: FUCK OFF you tactless fuck
You can’t stop yourself from being a dick
My answer is: FUCK OFF
lol
dude seriously shut up. You cannot even let people mourn a human being without making it about yourself and your need for people to debate you. Yeah I'd say that is being a dick. grow up, this isn't reddit
:jesse-wtf:
I don't know where you're getting this debate shit but you need to log off, slugger
You literally just demanded I answer your question without prompting. You're the one who is shitstirring in a memorial thread. Again, grow up
lmao how dare I disrespect the sanctity of an internet thread about a politician
Its distressing that some “leftists” are so insecure of other leftists becoming even slightly disillusioned of electoralism ,specificaly through entryist and ever capitulating socdems, as a good strategy for the left ,that they would start obsessively defending it in response to this fucking comment in the post of a good man’s death
"Legit the best candidate of 2020, man was a hero and braver than any major US politician in some 50 years. Never for a second forgot that the victims of our wars are the people of those countries, and the compassion he felt for them is awe inspiring"
And not just that, trying to make the point of their CORRECT AND EFFECTIVE approach against this man’s lifes work and praxis
Using various parliamentary maneuvers, Gravel was able to block the bill for five months
A normal country, where one senator from Alaska can grind a key part of the federal government to a halt.
:sankara-salute: to the guy for using that power for something good in this case, but what an example of how hard it can be to get anything done.
:maduro-salute: RIP to a real hero. Gravel has been strongly pushing against the right wing shift in America for as long as I can remember. The struggle carries on, and the gravel institute shows that his work wasn't in vain. Thanks to him, there is an inspired left wing youth in America that can grow greatly
His VP was "the Viet Cong" though I'm sure we could find some of em
god damn how cool would it be to elect a former member of the viet cong to the american presidency
My dude lived a long full life. His time was at the end and wanted to pass on his torch to the next gen
Best gift to give kissinger on his deathbed is working to turn all his work in the fed into his funeral pyre.
Yeah, 91 isn't a bad time to go. I like to think of Earth as a giant middle school party. It sucks if you're vibing and your parents come to pick you up and leave. But if your feet hurt, you've already danced the safety dance 20 times, and the food they laid out has all gone cold, having your parents say it's time to go is a mercy.
