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Both libs and the right have created a Truman Show type reality for themselves, wherein life is an Americana film shot in Super 8. It's just that the projector has eaten the tape a little, so all you have to do is just take it out and give it a little reset to get everything humming along fine.
Healthcare and wages aren't enough without equity from a global perspective. That's why 'tankie' has become such a catch-all phrase - it's just everything that would seek to destroy the facade. That's why both healthcare and somewhat higher wages are still safe to use around liberals because they don't break the simulation. The upper limit is always "European style Democratic Socialism" Anything more than that, and the luxuries have to be given up. Of course they can be given up reasonably, but when you've had them for so long, it's harder to be reasonable.
Calling radicalizing baby leftists "fascists" is high up on the list of self-defeating things leftists do. We talk about a pipeline to the left all the time -- that's taking a dump right in the middle of it.
Dodeca is just confusing demsoc with socdem. Calling the socdems social fascism is totally accurate.
Whether it's accurate is immaterial -- if we insult people who are moving in our direction, or who might be convinced to move in our direction, we're going to hinder that movement or drive people away. Everybody knows someone who may have a good point here or there, but is such an asshole about it that no one ever wants to give them the satisfaction of agreeing.
It's extremely easy to explain the problems of social democracy (namely, that in practice it's relied heavily on imperial exploitation) without calling someone who just came around to the idea of Medicare for All a fascist. There's no reason to shit all over people who we're going to need to work with.
In my experience socdems do not move left unless harassed into it. The ones that actually say socdem and know what it means anyway. They have taken that position because they seek to uphold capitalism, understand what demsocs are and reject that consciously. They have literally taken an anti-communist position which for anyone who understand what fascism actually is makes it clearly a fascist reaction, although moderate variant. I convert more republicans through friendly conversation than socdems.
The terminology is not very useful rhetorically though I agree. It makes the eyeballs of libs pop out and could use some updating to fit a modern way to present it. This doesn't matter a huge amount here though at least not at the moment with no clear growth source occurring, I was generating a bit of traffic before but have been incredibly busy up until very recently.
In my personal experience you need to use both positive and negative reinforcement. I always cheer on my friends when they come around to some idea, like when they recognize the problems with police departments or something similar. On the other hand if they say something lib I don't hesitate to call them out on it. I would never call them fascists though, I would say that their thought process is similar to fascists' at the most.
Yeah, I've never liked the social fascist label because it just feels too provocative, decisive, and alienating. Hell even commintern basically ditched it back then. I get the reasons why we call it that, but I usually use something like accidental fascist enablers towards people that are clearly misinformed.
The way I heard it explained once is:
I believe fascists should be shot. Even otherwise moderate people are often fine with fascists getting beaten wherever they show their faces. When you call someone a _______ fascist, that's what you're saying to them. Do you think they're going to work with people who want them beaten, or even killed?
Even if bullying has its uses (and we place way too much stock in that), there's the type of light shit-flinging you might direct at a friend with a bad take, and then there's saying that if you had the power you might kill someone.
Yeah, it's still an improvement over the radical wing of fascism that most are indoctrinated into
:shocked-pikachu: the libs turned out to be feckless cowards who wasted a bunch of time with feelgood bullshit then rallied behind the iron fist of the hegemon ?!
Liberals have always been like this. It’s important to see that in the past few days with the color revolution in Cuba, liberals and some social Democrats have stood with reactionaries and fascists in regurgitating anti communist propaganda. At the end of the day they will side with them to preserve capitalism at all costs.
The right's bloodthirst has recently lurched in the same sense that stonehenge has recently lurched
I suspect you're just noticing it now, which isn't a judgment on you; everyone has their moment
Fam, nows the time to understand that if you're a socialist then your life is in more credible danger than it ever was - quadruple so if you're not a white male.
If you're openly traveling as a socialist, don't do that shit alone. Our power comes from our numbers and not from individualist actions. Learn how to de-escalate, disengage and defend yourself.
And for goodness sake, make connections and/or join organizations. Saying you're a communist or saying you're an anarchist while not being in a communist or anarchist party formation is cape shit
It does seem to have stuck in them, doesn't it. Can't go into any liberal sub without it hanging there, even now; I suspect it's something to do with the combination of Trump and that would be insurrection he helped incite, something about the 'incivility' of it all seems to have wedged itself into their brains
The worst effect of the Trump presidency is convincing liberals and conservatives alike to think of themselves as objectively "the good guys." I wasn't paying that much attention to the end of Bush years, but I feel like it made both sides suspicious of government. Liberals were not happy with the Democrats, calling them week at worst or colluding with Republicans. In the same way, conservatives were willing to get mad at Republicans (they still loved America rock flag and eagle ofc).
The libs guy won. Now you're opposed to their guy and not the guy they hate. This is what being a leftist under a democrat is.
The Democrats are, in all seriousness, the war hawk party now. The Republican Party base (though not leadership) have genuinely shifted to a reactionary lifeboat-politics anti-war stance for some time, Trump was a reflection of this shift even though he in practice kow-towed to the party elders; the old neocons have largely jumped ship to the Democrats with lucrative gigs in their propaganda outlets but still identify as "conservative"
The Republican Party base (though not leadership) have genuinely shifted to a reactionary lifeboat-politics anti-war stance for some time,
I think it’s time to log off Chapo and actually talk to some Republicans. Like, I don’t know if a majority of this site lives in New York or something but some perspective is needed.
I will agree the libs have gone off their rocker, though, but they’re merely reaching the level Republicans are always at.
yeah i got into it yesterday on reddit with a guy with republican shit in his history, who was just mask-off saying that palestinians might be hiding weapons in humanitarian shipments, so therefore america should nuke gaza because they had nukes spare but to use neutron bombs so israel could steal the land without worrying about radiation
libs suck but they dont suck that bad
It's not just rank-and-file chuds, either.
Trump assassinated a top Iranian general and only called off a full-scale attack at the 11th hour. All but eight congressional Democrats voted for bills in opposition to this. The idea that Democrats are the war hawk party is a face-meltingly awful take.
There's a bad trend here of pretending Democrats are worse than Republicans. Democrats suck, everyone here knows that, but holy shit get some perspective.
Dems aren't worse, but they are more frustrating because we actually pay attention to them in case of the rare person/policy that deserves some support. With reps, there's zero illusion they'll ever do something good, and I think that combo messes with people's perceptions.
For what it's worth, from what I've seen IRL, reactionaries talk in general about not being the world police and dislike intervention broadly, but when you ask them specifically about one of America's designated "bad guys" like Iran or North Korea, then they are all about "bomb them to the stone age!".
US Americans have absolutely no understanding of the world around them so I am completely unsurprised they would have wildly contradictory views on foreign policy.
These are the same libs that completely displaced the crimes against humanity committed in Vietnam out of their heads after seeing Top Gun once at a theater.
Bush was a Republican, these people didn't think twice about destroying the people of Yugoslavia under Clinton.
Just read some republican reps Twitter for contrast. I get it recommended for some reason, it’s whole other level
