Russia clearly won, but even if your interjection is plausible. Not if we (Arabs) succeed in dragging the US into another losing war in the Middle East. They are already abandoning Ukraine for Israel. Just imagine if we managed to get troops in Yemen. The US is exercising restraint with Yemen for a reason, already spread too thin and just came out of two losing wars, and we will keep triggering it until it bites.
Not really, the US has been pumping the breaks on Israeli aid because of the indiscriminate bombings in Gaza. The US believes the civilians in Gaza have a right to their territory as a 2 state solution is desired.
literally yesterday. I know you're trying to still believe the US Government/Biden has any morality here but they don't. Stop listening to the lies of politicians, you are being misled and now you're spreading disinformation in service of ethnic cleansing and imperialism.
I'll just leave this here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/blinken-urges-israel-to-comply-with-international-law-and-spare-civilians-in-war-against-hamas
Actions are more important than words. The U.S. is going out of its way to expedite the artillery needed to continue Israel's indiscriminate bombing of civillians in its ongoing genocidal campaign against Palestinians.
Please I am begging you do not take these organizations at face value- read what the poster above you sent and recognize the distance between the statement "You need to comply with international law more closely" and the action: here is a way for us to get you bombs for you to use more quickly.
If on one hand part of the state apparatus is signaling for "restraint" but the state is accelerating its ability to provide weapons that its calling for restraint in use of the actual stance is clear: what you're doing is fine by the state.
It's alright, we can agree to disagree. Biden has criticized the Netanyahu government for their treatment of Palestinians. More should be done to ensure their safety, hence the conditial provisions of arms, but the United States policy stance has clear ambitions for a 2 state solution. Neither Hamas, nor the Netantahu government are okay with this, however it remains the United States ambition. I truly hope we can see this conflict resolved in my lifetime.
As far as I'm aware, the US has not fired any weapons on Gaza soil. There's been some defensive strikes to the north in Lebanon, but that's it. Seems like a stretch to call the United States complicit when it's goals do not align with the Netantahu government.
The vetoes are enough. The weapons and aid sent just make them one step away from pulling the trigger themselves.
The US will be held accountable for this genocide.
Vetoing a ceasefire in an active war does not change states policy and actions, but you can spin this however you'd like and we can agree to disagree. There's nothing wrong with disagreement, it just spurs the need for thoughtful discourse.
The US could have ended it 2 months ago, but instead it sends weapons and stops any international attempt at stopping it. It is complicit and all the resistance groups across the Middle East agree. US interests in the Middle East and military are legitimate targets. We can agree to disagree, but the US government will be held accountable for its war crimes.
As any nation/organization should be. The US is not exempt from international law, but fortunately has a remarkably solid argument in defense of its actions here.
It would be naive to think the strength of a nation in international relations is not a waxing/waning manor. It's of upmost importance to maintain policy that echos the opinions of a collective humanity.
Not true, the US and Israel act independently. Their democratic elections alter policy over time as new elected officials foster youthful debate and thus change officials policy. It's not a static system, but instead a dynamically evolving one.
Yet, the US is in complete lockstep defending Israel, regardless of which party voted in and regardless of which International law Israel is violating.
Honest question, do you know that you are lying? The connection between US financial, military and political support and Israeli crimes against Palestinians is clear to the whole world.
The US supports a 2 state solution and provisions for humanitarian aid due to the atrocities committed by both Hamas and the IDF. The US favors peace and stability.
If the US ever favoured peace and stability it would have had the 2-state solution done in the 1990s. The US always wanted the conflict to be a managed conflict, but never ending.
While the US has its stated policy, it cannot interfere with sovereign authority without unilateral justification. A 2 state solution needs agreement from Palestinians and Israelis alike. I truly hope this can come to fruition to end the needless loss of life.
The only discussion the West understands is at the end of a gun barrel. Otherwise nothing but hypocrisy and double standards.
I mean imagine if I said "It’s possible an separate representing body could be a part of the Russian Federation. That’s an interesting thought and I’d love to discuss it further!" about Ukraine.
The US has been making substantial steps towards reducing emissions. The amount of money funding fusion research right now is incredible! My brother currently works for a private fusion research company and getting to tour was a thrill in itself!
Environmentalists slam Biden admin's oil and gas auctions during COP28
https://www.axios.com/2023/11/29/biden-administration-oil-gas-lease-auctions-cop28
The US is biggest emitter and producer and will only be more so under Biden’s plan
I’m betting you my second house that in 10 years there will still be no high speed rail. Even the amount set aside for local manufacturing is paltry next to what the US sends to Israel to bomb Palestinians.
I've personally seen the infrastructure build out for HSR, it's progressing remarkably fast. Almost all of the at grade crossings are nearing completion for the San Joaquin valley corridor! Exciting news!
Who are you lying to? This is just sad. Egypt will have a HSR before you do, but at least people in the US can console themselves that their government is sending billions to “defend freedom and democracy”.
That's fine, the rate of development is rapid given the geographic, political, and private property questions involved. It's a unique process, but one that I fully support and am happy to see quickly roll out!
Do you understand what it takes to make an Engineering project tick? Also theses plenty of more red tape around the US rollout of HSR than the alternatives you presented.
People in the US assume the rest of the world is a lawless hell hole when many countries including China have stronger protections against eminent domain.
The real reason you haven’t gotten HSR isn’t technical, is political. Israel has first-dips on the US budget. Reminds me of something someone I knew used to say: “the American will sell his kids before cutting aid to Israel”.
So why did Joe Bellend and Obomba overthrow a democratically elected Yakunovich 10 years ago? Or joined up with in Lybia? Or propped up ISIS over a decade ago and try to overthrow Assad, creating a refugee crisis? Or attempt a failed coup in Xinjiang? Or hell, even in December of 2019 overthrow MAS in Bolivia? Just a few recent examples.
Sure as shit sounds like anything except "interfering with sovereign authority without unilateral justification".
Being genocided isn't a disagreement. It is amazing how you can be so racist and defend bombardment against the Palestinians in particular but oppose it against the Ukrainians.
but racism explains why you are defending a genocide against the Palestinians. You would be singing a completely different tune if the people being murdered were relatively civilized relatively european.
where does your double standards come from, unless you don't see the Palestinians as equally humans?
but the 2-state solution itself is annexation. If you are okay with it in Palestine then you should be okay with it in Ukraine. Otherwise you are being a hypocrite either due to historical ignorance or racism.
They say a picture is worth a thousand words. All the dots on this map are ethnically cleansed Palestinian towns and villages. If this happening to the Palestinians is okay with you, being forced from their homes with no right to return, then it happening to the Ukrainians should also be okay with you.
The US does not recognize these atrocities and never did. If it had, it would have bombed Tel Aviv decades ago, or at least sanctioned them instead of sending them billions in aid.
Neither is racism and imperialism. Isn't it ironic that the countries that don't recognize Palestine are the same countries that consider Hamas terrorists. Almost like they are racist and imperialist.
Hamas has committed terrorist acts. It'd be naive to think they don't support terrorism. Frankly it was the spark that started the most recent developments with the conflict.
Again, more ignorance. Not only being racist to 87% of the world population who don't see Hamas as terrorists. But also completely disregarding and ignoring the context that led Hamas to respond on October 7th. Do you even know why it was called Operation Al-Aqsa Flood?
This happened on October 4th! Worshippers were attacked in Al-Aqsa Mosque https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/4/israeli-settlers-storm-al-aqsa-mosque-complex-on-fifth-day-of-sukkot
Typical racists, always ignoring that they attacked first, and only focusing on the response.
It's clear the intentions were to strike terror in an effort to bring attention to the apartheid. This does not detract from the fact that it was still terrorism.
Nelson Mandela was a terrorist while the KKK is a tax-exempt religious organization. Your definition of terrorism is racist, and boils down to "when non-whites fight back".
The US supported apartheid in South Africa until the bitter end, even when the rest of the world stood in opposition to it. Nelson Mandela was considered a terrorist until 2008.
Your government gets a lot wrong. So I can safely ignore it.
The beauty of a democratic government is the nature of shifts in policy. It may not be able to act as swiftly as an authoritarian regime, but it does allow all sides to get their time to share input. I've never claimed the US to be the arbitor of morality, they've made their fair share of mistakes. Fortunately the democratic process allows us to Garner a better understanding as a whole, and thus work towards the solutions that being forth the most common good. Very utilitarian in nature.
Enjoy your democracy while I enjoy my high speed rail. At least until Israel orders you to bomb us.
After traveling to the US once and actually having the Acela train I was on die during the trip, is plenty of argument against whatever political system you have
Watch Saudi's HSR and weep
https://youtu.be/uXtaWSnmvTg
My brother in Zeus. Saudi's HSR started after and finished before California's HSR. Your government would sooner loot the project for copper wires and steel beams to sell, so that it has money to send to Israel, than allow it to finish.
Your entire government's purpose is to finance and aid Israel, everything else is coincidental.
Well there's a difference in governance. If the US was not a democracy with protections for private property, HSR would've likely been complete. Not to mention the vast differences in terrain which pose difficult engineering questions to be answered.
My vote for Bernie was counted, so yes even for a 3rd party candidate. It would be nice to work towards a proportional representative vote, some states have implement this, but I'd like to see it on the federal scale.
You still haven't been able to back up your claim that the USA is putting the breaks on it's aid of Isreal because of the genocide. All you've done is point to the US going "we'd like it if you slowed down on the genocide, but we'll 100 support you if you don't" and tried to equivocate that as being the same, when it really isn't.
I said pumping the breaks. There's still legitimate concern for the removal of Hamas as the acting government of Gaza. Neither Hamas, nor the Netantahu backed Israeli government want a 2 state solution, however this remains the US states policy. Whoever can broker a deal that affirms a 2 state solution here will hopefully produce meaningful change towards this conflict.
US aid is conditional to congressional support. Currently there's debate on the issue at hand. Doesn't remove the impact humanitarian aid has provided in the region. The 2 state solution has always been the desired solution here in the states. That position has been unwavering.
The United States official policy is for a 2 state solution, I'm not sure how you can see it any other way. Feel free to present your arguments though!
I'm glad I could present you with thoughtful alternatives to your beliefs. It's important for civil discourse. This has been a largely productive and positive discussion, thank you for your input and civility!
Those are some subpar drawing skills if I've ever seen any. You might need some lessons. The whole meme format doesn't really make sense to me, however I'll admit it's possible autism may be at play.
Now I'm just confused, but that's okay! This has been a wonderful discussion regarding the attrocities committed by Russian aggression in Ukraine. I'm glad I could spark some thoughtful debate here in lemmygrad! It's been lacking non affirming voices as far as I can tell.
No, but if you'd like to make that conclusion, it's well within your right to do so. This is why I support our democratic process and the debate it garnishes!
Did anyone ever tell you the saying "actions speak louder than words" as a kid? Now apply that to state actors. No matter what words their US uses, no matter their criticism, their actions are very clear.
Yes absolutely. That's why it's imperative to understand when Putin said we're not going to invade Ukraine, while staging troops along the Ukraine border, then choosing to in invade the foreign country after the Olympics concluded. Understanding here highlights the wrongful actions Russia knowingly committed, at the direction of Putin, against a sovereign nation. The international community has decided to push back against these attrocities and the ICC will adjudicate the war crimes committed in the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
John McCain and Lindsay Graham told neo nazis to go cement the damage done by the 2014 coup and they went and electrocuted babushkas through the kidneys. They build grandmas different in Donetsk so she kept on fighting. Online Ukraine supporters don't have it in them. I'm surprised you haven't moved back to trashing 🇻🇪
Nothing wrong with hyperlinks, however a footnote section makes for a better format. Many of these hyperlinks don't even relate to the word that was linked. It just makes it look as if something backs the claim being made. They're littered everywhere and the few I clicked, didn't have much relevance. Footnotes make it easier to see where each stems from and allow the reader to understand potential bias easier. Care to link to peer reviewed academic articles on one of the subjects? I'd be glad to dig in, but so far I'm reading propaganda sprinkled with a few true statements to produce a sense of legitimacy. It's misinformation campaign 101.
I won't entertain bad faith arguments, but I'd recommend you read up more on the Maidan to gain some historical context. You'll likely make some alterations to your opinion, and shatter bits of your worldview. Also there's plenty of peer reviewed academic papers on the Maidan, e.g. https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt1zkjxq0.11
Lol you think a social science paper is the same as a study. You're such a specious thinker. Did you really just search Maidan on Google scholar to try to impress me? I'm going to bend you over.
You want to read a book, big boy? Open wide!
https://files.catbox.moe/r7ee47.php
Your history of Ukraine begins 2022. I have more than one-hundred times the depth of knowledge on this subject you do.
You can't seriously be trying to act glib after you ignored the basic point I made about the social sciences due to sheer ignorance. The world is not a laboratory.
Articles like the ones I posted often become chapters in books, and are just as suitable as the paper you cited when it comes to examining the recent history of Ukraine.
There is no way for you to disguise your intellectual humiliation, flat out refusing to examine the sources I provided, or prove that they are themselves inaccurately sourced. You have nothing but your own confirmation bias to sustain you.
Now go do your homework, Bandera boy. I gave you plenty.
Your belief that the articles you shared will become chapters in history is laughable. They'll exist sure, but they'll carry no merit as their bias paints a dark stain on their impact. Through simple logic and reasoning, the bias is easily sniffed out. Please learn to apply some common sense when carrying out debate in public forums. It's a step towards being decent.
You're all alone with your reddit debate bro shit man, you're not fooling anybody. We all know it's a bluff. This is what you do whenever you see anything you disagree with: label it disinformation. It's the same strategy as narcissistic twitter bluechecks. You're employing an embarrassing, lazy, overused rhetorical strategy that has literally not worked a single time.
My understanding is that Lemmy is a platform to allow individuals to discuss topics in an open forum setting. I'm here to be open minded and listen, but debate is a two-way street. In order to promote open discussion, participants in a democratic process need to be willing to discuss their beliefs with others. It's important to participate in this process as it's how I believe humanity can grow stronger. Our struggles as humans are the same, we must understand the differing viewpoints others have come to realize in order to promote a better world.
The US is bankrolling the genocide and vetoed the ceasefire. Who are you lying to?
The US and its interests are a fair and legitimate targets because of its involvement and complicity in the genocide.
Joe Biden Moves to Lift Nearly Every Restriction on Israel’s Access to U.S. Weapons Stockpile
https://theintercept.com/2023/11/25/biden-israel-weapons-stockpile-arms-gaza/
Don’t be fooled. Biden is fully signed up to ethnic cleansing in Gaza
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-war-gaza-biden-fully-signed-up-genocide
As a defensive partner it makes sense to continue to provide aid and arms to Israel for defensive purposes, which includes the removal of a condemned terrorist organization as the acting government of the Gaza strip. This does not reduce or remove the US effort to provide aid and humanitarian support to the citizens of Gaza. A 2 state solution remains the policy of the United States, even if this is a foil with both Hamas and the Netantahu government.
You wouldn’t say this if it was Russia bombing Ukrainians. I’m gonna blame this on racism against Arabs. No other reason to describe the murder of 18,000 civilians and the bombing of schools and hospitals as defensive.
condemned terrorist organization
Citation needed.
According to Wikipedia the countries that consider it as terrorist are only than 13% of the world’s population. That doesn’t seem like much condemnation when 87% of the world aren’t on board.
And the Palestinians are bombed where? in the skies? they are being bombed on their own land that was stolen from them, and in the refugee camps they are forced to live in. Internally displaced on their own land.
Palestinians are not a target of bombings in Gaza, they're sad casualties of the realities of war and conflict. Bombing non-military targets is never okay, but there's limits to the precision of weapons in use today.
If 2, then maybe this will help make it clear to you that the occupation military always intended to target and kill as many civilians as possible:
“I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed,” Gallant says following an assessment at the IDF Southern Command in Beersheba.
“We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,” he adds.
I have not voiced my support for the Netantahu government, and am failing to see the connection to the United States official policy for a 2 state solution.
The US government has though and everyone knows that Netanyahu always opposed a Palestinian state. Netanyahu has been playing the US as a sock puppet for years.
Here was when he scammed the US into invading Iraq:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHzSr52fZLQ
"Meanwhile, most of protestors in Tel Aviv are wary of making this connection and are horrified by speakers who try to connect the palpable risk to democracy with the occupation of the territories or the waving of Palestinian flags in protest. However, the moment may well come when they too will recognize that there is no democracy alongside occupation."
Haven't I been reiterating my support and official US policy for a 2 state solution?
Israel isn't a real state, it's a neoimperialist attack dog that occasionally forgets its leash. It's theft and murder incarnate. If you really consider historical context to be important and still hold to a two-state solution as the ideal outcome, then I'm sorry, you're lacking a great deal of historical context and haven't the right to invoke it here.
Unfortunately the stain of religion has caused the fruition of needless casualties throughout the centuries. As the world becomes more atheistic over time due to the nature of scientic discovery, my hopes for change grow.
Broadly speaking, religion is not diminished by scientific discovery, it is diminished by people's material needs being met and their prospects looking good. Our friend Marx called that one a long time ago, but modern studies on secularization say the same thing.
But Israel/Palestine is not about religion except as a smokescreen. It is about race, specifically an overwhelmingly white population of settler colonists creating and expanding an ethnostate. The aggrievement of the Palestinians is not that Jews exist, but that their homes were taken and their family members and friends were butchered like animals.
What they are correctly suggesting is that your thesis is ignoring Israel's context as a settler-colony authored by Britain to enable what amounted to the mass-expulsion of Holocaust refugees from Europe to run an ethnostate in the Middle East that would act as an instrument for its interests.
The idea of religious conflict being the main element is completely absurd. A truly Jewish state would not forcibly sterilize Ethiopian Jews
I never claimed Britans handling of the relocation of Jewish people was perfect, many things could've been handled differently, however the conflict around Jerusalem is much older than you suggest and riddled with religious interests. Religion should not guide modern policy. At most religion should act as, "an opiate of the masses."
That conflict is a fiction invented by zionists that has only the most tenuous analogy to anything in actual history. The small number of Jewish Palestinians who were used as part of the smokescreen are out of the picture at this point, as Israel is overwhelmingly and aggressively white and has no interest is helping either Jewish or Muslim Arabs. The modern state of Israel is not based on those conflicts, there is no causal continuity, that is just a lie you have been fed. It's a white colony that is as connected to that inter-Palestinian conflict as the Nazis were connected to the Arabs of Ancient India, it's just something some racial supremacists conjured up for their fascist mythology.
Incidentally, get Marx's words out of your mouth if you won't bother to ever actually read him
"Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised." - Hamas Covenant 1988
"They (Jews) were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there." - Hamas Covenant 1988
Sounds pretty darn racist to me. The same beliefs are echoed today by neo-nazis.
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)." - Hamas Covenant 1988
Alright, I mean this in the kindest way possible, you have no idea what you're talking about. I don't have the time required nor the desire to rectify that, so I'll simply say that you've spent a regrettable amount of time here embarrassing yourself in front of people who know substantially more about history and politics than you do. Trying to debate communists on those subjects at all is generally a bad idea, but to do so armed only with natsec PR and mystery statistics is something else.
I mean personally I support communism, but I have yet to see it implemented without authoritarian influence. The Native Americans have a pretty decent communal system, which the US should learn from.
I mean personally I support communism, but I have yet to see it implemented without authoritarian influence
Pretty rich coming from someone on the side of
Also you do realize why socialists and communists become "authoritarian" right? It's at least partly to do with people like you who would have snitched to the Apartheid government and even attempted to kill them.
Either you are dumb or lying. The US will pay and in many ways that can't be foreseen for unconditionally enabling the genocide. If the US were independent, why does Israel keep dragging it into conflicts and wars? They tricked you into the invasion of Iraq and trying to get you into Yemen and Iran. If you are adamant that Israel acts independently, then it is clear who holds the leash. The US will still be a valid target because it is easier and more attackable, I don't have to leave my own country, your troops are everywhere.
Your government sends endless and unconditional military and financial aid to Israel that enables it to commit genocide protected by the US veto in the UN, therefore it is complicit and guilty in the massacres.
I want you to consider this comment and compare it to your previous comment above. You said that the US is reducing spending on Israel because of Israel's brutal actions. Then when it was pointed out to you that they in fact were doing the opposite, your response was not to then say "wow, that's really shitty of them" but instead to try and justify their actions to yourself.
Have you no brain? No heart? No soul? No spine? Is this really the person you want to be? Someone licking the boot of the dickhead politicians in Washington so much that you'll abandon any and all morals to do so? It's ok to be mad at your government when they do shitty things, even if they are "your team."
Correct, as the current acting government, Hamas, uses terrorism as a tactic to guide policy change. The US will not succomb to these barbaric tactics. The US is in favor of a 2 state solution though civil discussion and mutual agreement, much like I'm trying to encourage here in this community!
I don't know what a bit is, other than in the field of computer science, so a 0 or a 1. I don't know how I could equate the former discourse in such a domain. Care to elaborate, or rather define what a bit is in your contextualization?
Russia clearly won, but even if your interjection is plausible. Not if we (Arabs) succeed in dragging the US into another losing war in the Middle East. They are already abandoning Ukraine for Israel. Just imagine if we managed to get troops in Yemen. The US is exercising restraint with Yemen for a reason, already spread too thin and just came out of two losing wars, and we will keep triggering it until it bites.
Not really, the US has been pumping the breaks on Israeli aid because of the indiscriminate bombings in Gaza. The US believes the civilians in Gaza have a right to their territory as a 2 state solution is desired.
PENTAGON TAPS “TIGER TEAM” TO RUSH WEAPONS TO ISRAEL
literally yesterday. I know you're trying to still believe the US Government/Biden has any morality here but they don't. Stop listening to the lies of politicians, you are being misled and now you're spreading disinformation in service of ethnic cleansing and imperialism.
I'll just leave this here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/blinken-urges-israel-to-comply-with-international-law-and-spare-civilians-in-war-against-hamas
Actions are more important than words. The U.S. is going out of its way to expedite the artillery needed to continue Israel's indiscriminate bombing of civillians in its ongoing genocidal campaign against Palestinians.
Please I am begging you do not take these organizations at face value- read what the poster above you sent and recognize the distance between the statement "You need to comply with international law more closely" and the action: here is a way for us to get you bombs for you to use more quickly.
If on one hand part of the state apparatus is signaling for "restraint" but the state is accelerating its ability to provide weapons that its calling for restraint in use of the actual stance is clear: what you're doing is fine by the state.
It's alright, we can agree to disagree. Biden has criticized the Netanyahu government for their treatment of Palestinians. More should be done to ensure their safety, hence the conditial provisions of arms, but the United States policy stance has clear ambitions for a 2 state solution. Neither Hamas, nor the Netantahu government are okay with this, however it remains the United States ambition. I truly hope we can see this conflict resolved in my lifetime.
20,000 Palestinians are dead because of Joe Biden. You can’t spin it any other way. The US under Biden is guilty of genocide.
As far as I'm aware, the US has not fired any weapons on Gaza soil. There's been some defensive strikes to the north in Lebanon, but that's it. Seems like a stretch to call the United States complicit when it's goals do not align with the Netantahu government.
The vetoes are enough. The weapons and aid sent just make them one step away from pulling the trigger themselves. The US will be held accountable for this genocide.
Vetoing a ceasefire in an active war does not change states policy and actions, but you can spin this however you'd like and we can agree to disagree. There's nothing wrong with disagreement, it just spurs the need for thoughtful discourse.
The US could have ended it 2 months ago, but instead it sends weapons and stops any international attempt at stopping it. It is complicit and all the resistance groups across the Middle East agree. US interests in the Middle East and military are legitimate targets. We can agree to disagree, but the US government will be held accountable for its war crimes.
As any nation/organization should be. The US is not exempt from international law, but fortunately has a remarkably solid argument in defense of its actions here.
Might is right is only a valid argument when you know you will never be weak. International Law applies equally to all otherwise.
It would be naive to think the strength of a nation in international relations is not a waxing/waning manor. It's of upmost importance to maintain policy that echos the opinions of a collective humanity.
Yet, the US-Israel acts with complete disregard to International Law and human values it as-if they will be strong forever.
Not true, the US and Israel act independently. Their democratic elections alter policy over time as new elected officials foster youthful debate and thus change officials policy. It's not a static system, but instead a dynamically evolving one.
Yet, the US is in complete lockstep defending Israel, regardless of which party voted in and regardless of which International law Israel is violating.
Honest question, do you know that you are lying? The connection between US financial, military and political support and Israeli crimes against Palestinians is clear to the whole world.
The US supports a 2 state solution and provisions for humanitarian aid due to the atrocities committed by both Hamas and the IDF. The US favors peace and stability.
If the US ever favoured peace and stability it would have had the 2-state solution done in the 1990s. The US always wanted the conflict to be a managed conflict, but never ending.
While the US has its stated policy, it cannot interfere with sovereign authority without unilateral justification. A 2 state solution needs agreement from Palestinians and Israelis alike. I truly hope this can come to fruition to end the needless loss of life.
do you think this also applies to the Donetsk Republic?
The Donetsk Republic is not a sovereign nation and has never been recognized to be.
It is and has been recognized.
What international body has recognized this separatist movement?
The UN charter gives them the right to self determination. As a Russian minority in a majority-Ukrainian state they have the right to do so.
It's possible an separate representing body could be a part of a Ukrainian republic. That's an interesting thought and I'd love to discuss it further!
The only discussion the West understands is at the end of a gun barrel. Otherwise nothing but hypocrisy and double standards.
I mean imagine if I said "It’s possible an separate representing body could be a part of the Russian Federation. That’s an interesting thought and I’d love to discuss it further!" about Ukraine.
Kazakhstan mean anything to you?
Yes. My country is building a major renewable project there
"Acwa Power to build 1GW wind energy plant in Kazakhstan" https://www.agbi.com/articles/acwa-power-to-build-1gw-wind-energy-plant-in-kazakhstan/
"Saudi Arabia collaborates with Kazakhstan to improve energy partnership" https://www.arabnews.com/node/2320786/business-economy
Excellent, renewable energy is the way of the future. Now give back the land and reaffirm Kazakh soverignty.
When did Saudi Arabia take any Kazakh land?
I'll admit, you stumped me. Point me towards where I can read about Saudi involvement in Kazakhstan.
You brought it up
They support energy cooperation, sounds like a win-win.
Of course. Unlike the US, Saudi Arabia is actually serious about climate change.
The US has been making substantial steps towards reducing emissions. The amount of money funding fusion research right now is incredible! My brother currently works for a private fusion research company and getting to tour was a thrill in itself!
That’s not even true
Environmentalists slam Biden admin's oil and gas auctions during COP28 https://www.axios.com/2023/11/29/biden-administration-oil-gas-lease-auctions-cop28
The US is biggest emitter and producer and will only be more so under Biden’s plan
More planned future emissions too
Biden's build back better plan is working towards meeting COP climate goals. Not sure how you can argue otherwise, but please discuss to enlighten me!
I’m betting you my second house that in 10 years there will still be no high speed rail. Even the amount set aside for local manufacturing is paltry next to what the US sends to Israel to bomb Palestinians.
Your country exists to serve Israel not you.
I've personally seen the infrastructure build out for HSR, it's progressing remarkably fast. Almost all of the at grade crossings are nearing completion for the San Joaquin valley corridor! Exciting news!
Who are you lying to? This is just sad. Egypt will have a HSR before you do, but at least people in the US can console themselves that their government is sending billions to “defend freedom and democracy”.
That's fine, the rate of development is rapid given the geographic, political, and private property questions involved. It's a unique process, but one that I fully support and am happy to see quickly roll out!
Do you know that it has been “coming soon” since 2008?
I understand you have nothing left but optimism, but come on be realistic.
Do you understand what it takes to make an Engineering project tick? Also theses plenty of more red tape around the US rollout of HSR than the alternatives you presented.
Yes, central planning and budgeting.
People in the US assume the rest of the world is a lawless hell hole when many countries including China have stronger protections against eminent domain.
The real reason you haven’t gotten HSR isn’t technical, is political. Israel has first-dips on the US budget. Reminds me of something someone I knew used to say: “the American will sell his kids before cutting aid to Israel”.
I mean I brought up the political aspect. The auto manufacturers and oil lobby have their own input in democratic discourse.
Neither is Ukraine.
So why did Joe Bellend and Obomba overthrow a democratically elected Yakunovich 10 years ago? Or joined up with
in Lybia? Or propped up ISIS over a decade ago and try to overthrow Assad, creating a refugee crisis? Or attempt a failed coup in Xinjiang? Or hell, even in December of 2019 overthrow MAS in Bolivia? Just a few recent examples.
Sure as shit sounds like anything except "interfering with sovereign authority without unilateral justification".
Nothing defensive about it. Israel is the aggressor and the US is the enabler.
Sounds like we can agree to disagree, there's nothing wrong with that when democracy reigns!
Being genocided isn't a disagreement. It is amazing how you can be so racist and defend bombardment against the Palestinians in particular but oppose it against the Ukrainians.
I haven't brought race into this discourse and plan to keep it that way. This is discussing country policy decisions.
but racism explains why you are defending a genocide against the Palestinians. You would be singing a completely different tune if the people being murdered were relatively civilized relatively european.
where does your double standards come from, unless you don't see the Palestinians as equally humans?
I disagree, the promotion of a 2 state solution in Israel parallels the states policy for the protection of Ukrainian sovereignty.
So you agree with Russia annexing parts of Eastern Ukraine? Just looking for consistency.
No, I disagree with any form of forced annexation. Hench the support of a 2 state solution in Israel and the protection of Ukrainian sovereignty.
but the 2-state solution itself is annexation. If you are okay with it in Palestine then you should be okay with it in Ukraine. Otherwise you are being a hypocrite either due to historical ignorance or racism.
Please explain to me how a 2 state solution is in affect, annexation?
They say a picture is worth a thousand words. All the dots on this map are ethnically cleansed Palestinian towns and villages. If this happening to the Palestinians is okay with you, being forced from their homes with no right to return, then it happening to the Ukrainians should also be okay with you.
The US recognizes these attrocities and thus favors a 2 state solution to end this war and preexisting conflict.
The US does not recognize these atrocities and never did. If it had, it would have bombed Tel Aviv decades ago, or at least sanctioned them instead of sending them billions in aid.
Two wrongs do not make a right. The US favors a 2 state solution.
That's your opinion but if you will die on the hill of "Two wrongs do not make a right" then apply it to east Ukraine and let Russia keep it.
Fortunately the defense of sovereign Ukrainian territory is not a wrong. The UN backs this claim directly in its charter.
And Hamas and other Palestinian resistance groups are legitimate per the UN charter yet you called them terrorists. You aren't consistent.
Terrorism and resistance groups are not mutually exclusive.
Neither is racism and imperialism. Isn't it ironic that the countries that don't recognize Palestine are the same countries that consider Hamas terrorists. Almost like they are racist and imperialist.
Hamas has committed terrorist acts. It'd be naive to think they don't support terrorism. Frankly it was the spark that started the most recent developments with the conflict.
Again, more ignorance. Not only being racist to 87% of the world population who don't see Hamas as terrorists. But also completely disregarding and ignoring the context that led Hamas to respond on October 7th. Do you even know why it was called Operation Al-Aqsa Flood?
This happened on October 4th! Worshippers were attacked in Al-Aqsa Mosque https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/4/israeli-settlers-storm-al-aqsa-mosque-complex-on-fifth-day-of-sukkot
Typical racists, always ignoring that they attacked first, and only focusing on the response.
It's clear the intentions were to strike terror in an effort to bring attention to the apartheid. This does not detract from the fact that it was still terrorism.
Nelson Mandela was a terrorist while the KKK is a tax-exempt religious organization. Your definition of terrorism is racist, and boils down to "when non-whites fight back".
US policy towards the apartheid in South Africa changed over the years. This highlights the importance of being open minded!
The US supported apartheid in South Africa until the bitter end, even when the rest of the world stood in opposition to it. Nelson Mandela was considered a terrorist until 2008.
Your government gets a lot wrong. So I can safely ignore it.
The beauty of a democratic government is the nature of shifts in policy. It may not be able to act as swiftly as an authoritarian regime, but it does allow all sides to get their time to share input. I've never claimed the US to be the arbitor of morality, they've made their fair share of mistakes. Fortunately the democratic process allows us to Garner a better understanding as a whole, and thus work towards the solutions that being forth the most common good. Very utilitarian in nature.
Enjoy your democracy while I enjoy my high speed rail. At least until Israel orders you to bomb us.
After traveling to the US once and actually having the Acela train I was on die during the trip, is plenty of argument against whatever political system you have
Watch Saudi's HSR and weep https://youtu.be/uXtaWSnmvTg
High Speed Rail is in a Renaissance phase here in the US, it's incredibly exciting! I'm not sure how this fits the current discourse here though.
My brother in Zeus. Saudi's HSR started after and finished before California's HSR. Your government would sooner loot the project for copper wires and steel beams to sell, so that it has money to send to Israel, than allow it to finish.
Your entire government's purpose is to finance and aid Israel, everything else is coincidental.
Well there's a difference in governance. If the US was not a democracy with protections for private property, HSR would've likely been complete. Not to mention the vast differences in terrain which pose difficult engineering questions to be answered.
If the US is a democracy then explain this
Well more specifically it's a democratic republic, which would answer this question, however the future will likely bring change as votes are cast!
Do the people know this?
I would hope so as it's a core part of the public curriculum!
And they still vote knowing this?
Absolutely, a vote is a vote and should be encouraged and protected as such.
Even a vote for a 3rd party candidate?
My vote for Bernie was counted, so yes even for a 3rd party candidate. It would be nice to work towards a proportional representative vote, some states have implement this, but I'd like to see it on the federal scale.
Ah yes just
harder sweaty. Pick from "War hawk cracker one" or "War hawk cracker two".
CLIMAX INTO THE BALLOT BOX.
🔻 🔻 🔻
This really opened my mind, thank you. It's wild what westerners will want to believe. I'm assuming that lemmy isn't big enough for bots yet.
“You stop killing people now, ok?”, I said to the active shooter after handing them an AK-47 and 2000 rounds of munition, as well as hand grenades.
I'm glad I could help to open your mind to change! I appreciate the thoughtful debate, we need more of this in public discourse!
You still haven't been able to back up your claim that the USA is putting the breaks on it's aid of Isreal because of the genocide. All you've done is point to the US going "we'd like it if you slowed down on the genocide, but we'll 100 support you if you don't" and tried to equivocate that as being the same, when it really isn't.
I said pumping the breaks. There's still legitimate concern for the removal of Hamas as the acting government of Gaza. Neither Hamas, nor the Netantahu backed Israeli government want a 2 state solution, however this remains the US states policy. Whoever can broker a deal that affirms a 2 state solution here will hopefully produce meaningful change towards this conflict.
Doesn't change anything about my point.
Incorrect. And you don't see the USA sending endless, unconditional, military aid to Palestine so they can remove the Israeli government.
Hamas explicitly calls for a 2 state solution you lying ghoul.
Not true, not until the US recognises the state of Palestine.
Going to be pretty hard to do while Isreal and the USA are committed to genocide.
US aid is conditional to congressional support. Currently there's debate on the issue at hand. Doesn't remove the impact humanitarian aid has provided in the region. The 2 state solution has always been the desired solution here in the states. That position has been unwavering.
So you lied and you admit it.
You've already been told that the USA doesn't hold the two state solution and why.
The United States official policy is for a 2 state solution, I'm not sure how you can see it any other way. Feel free to present your arguments though!
I have, you ignored them and reasserted your thesis
I'm glad I could present you with thoughtful alternatives to your beliefs. It's important for civil discourse. This has been a largely productive and positive discussion, thank you for your input and civility!
Those are some subpar drawing skills if I've ever seen any. You might need some lessons. The whole meme format doesn't really make sense to me, however I'll admit it's possible autism may be at play.
Now I'm just confused, but that's okay! This has been a wonderful discussion regarding the attrocities committed by Russian aggression in Ukraine. I'm glad I could spark some thoughtful debate here in lemmygrad! It's been lacking non affirming voices as far as I can tell.
No, but if you'd like to make that conclusion, it's well within your right to do so. This is why I support our democratic process and the debate it garnishes!
Did anyone ever tell you the saying "actions speak louder than words" as a kid? Now apply that to state actors. No matter what words their US uses, no matter their criticism, their actions are very clear.
Yes absolutely. That's why it's imperative to understand when Putin said we're not going to invade Ukraine, while staging troops along the Ukraine border, then choosing to in invade the foreign country after the Olympics concluded. Understanding here highlights the wrongful actions Russia knowingly committed, at the direction of Putin, against a sovereign nation. The international community has decided to push back against these attrocities and the ICC will adjudicate the war crimes committed in the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
John McCain and Lindsay Graham told neo nazis to go cement the damage done by the 2014 coup and they went and electrocuted babushkas through the kidneys. They build grandmas different in Donetsk so she kept on fighting. Online Ukraine supporters don't have it in them. I'm surprised you haven't moved back to trashing 🇻🇪
https://sputnikglobe.com/20230721/the-truth-about-ukrainian-war-crimes-against-donbass-civilians-1112031958.html
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/12/11/ukrainian-maidan-massacre-false-flag/
https://covertactionmagazine.com/2023/07/17/the-lord-of-the-underworld-meet-the-paratrooper-from-north-carolina-who-orchestrated-the-war-in-ukraine/
https://covertactionmagazine.com/2023/02/03/how-a-network-of-nazi-propagandists-helped-lay-the-groundwork-for-the-war-in-ukraine/
https://mronline.org/2022/06/13/how-monsters-who-beat-jews-to-death-in-1944-became-americas-favorite-freedom-fighters-in-1945/
Care to provide corroborating evidence to back these articles? They read like pure propaganda and fail to cite claims.
I'm sorry, is there something about hyperlinks which confuses you?
You need to have a little number linking to a footnote, or else it doesn't count lmfao
Nothing wrong with hyperlinks, however a footnote section makes for a better format. Many of these hyperlinks don't even relate to the word that was linked. It just makes it look as if something backs the claim being made. They're littered everywhere and the few I clicked, didn't have much relevance. Footnotes make it easier to see where each stems from and allow the reader to understand potential bias easier. Care to link to peer reviewed academic articles on one of the subjects? I'd be glad to dig in, but so far I'm reading propaganda sprinkled with a few true statements to produce a sense of legitimacy. It's misinformation campaign 101.
Hm, very scintillating, old sport! There's just one problem. You're making unverified claims to me!
I will require each hyperlink that you consider misleading, along with the passage where it is found.
Because I recall each and every one was related to the passage it was found in.
There are no peer reviewed scientific papers about the Maidan, you complete dolt. It's a color revolution, not a pond of tadpoles.
Instead what we have are Ukrainian sources you have trusted before admitting what their enemies already told them, far too late.
Get to work!
I won't entertain bad faith arguments, but I'd recommend you read up more on the Maidan to gain some historical context. You'll likely make some alterations to your opinion, and shatter bits of your worldview. Also there's plenty of peer reviewed academic papers on the Maidan, e.g. https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt1zkjxq0.11
Lol you think a social science paper is the same as a study. You're such a specious thinker. Did you really just search Maidan on Google scholar to try to impress me? I'm going to bend you over.
You want to read a book, big boy? Open wide!
https://files.catbox.moe/r7ee47.php
Your history of Ukraine begins 2022. I have more than one-hundred times the depth of knowledge on this subject you do.
I'm not sure why you think commiting to insults has an impact on your claims, but carry on! I'll continue to support thoughtful discourse and debate!
You can't seriously be trying to act glib after you ignored the basic point I made about the social sciences due to sheer ignorance. The world is not a laboratory.
Articles like the ones I posted often become chapters in books, and are just as suitable as the paper you cited when it comes to examining the recent history of Ukraine.
There is no way for you to disguise your intellectual humiliation, flat out refusing to examine the sources I provided, or prove that they are themselves inaccurately sourced. You have nothing but your own confirmation bias to sustain you.
Now go do your homework, Bandera boy. I gave you plenty.
Your belief that the articles you shared will become chapters in history is laughable. They'll exist sure, but they'll carry no merit as their bias paints a dark stain on their impact. Through simple logic and reasoning, the bias is easily sniffed out. Please learn to apply some common sense when carrying out debate in public forums. It's a step towards being decent.
You're all alone with your reddit debate bro shit man, you're not fooling anybody. We all know it's a bluff. This is what you do whenever you see anything you disagree with: label it disinformation. It's the same strategy as narcissistic twitter bluechecks. You're employing an embarrassing, lazy, overused rhetorical strategy that has literally not worked a single time.
My understanding is that Lemmy is a platform to allow individuals to discuss topics in an open forum setting. I'm here to be open minded and listen, but debate is a two-way street. In order to promote open discussion, participants in a democratic process need to be willing to discuss their beliefs with others. It's important to participate in this process as it's how I believe humanity can grow stronger. Our struggles as humans are the same, we must understand the differing viewpoints others have come to realize in order to promote a better world.
The US is bankrolling the genocide and vetoed the ceasefire. Who are you lying to? The US and its interests are a fair and legitimate targets because of its involvement and complicity in the genocide.
Joe Biden Moves to Lift Nearly Every Restriction on Israel’s Access to U.S. Weapons Stockpile https://theintercept.com/2023/11/25/biden-israel-weapons-stockpile-arms-gaza/
Don’t be fooled. Biden is fully signed up to ethnic cleansing in Gaza https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-war-gaza-biden-fully-signed-up-genocide
As a defensive partner it makes sense to continue to provide aid and arms to Israel for defensive purposes, which includes the removal of a condemned terrorist organization as the acting government of the Gaza strip. This does not reduce or remove the US effort to provide aid and humanitarian support to the citizens of Gaza. A 2 state solution remains the policy of the United States, even if this is a foil with both Hamas and the Netantahu government.
You wouldn’t say this if it was Russia bombing Ukrainians. I’m gonna blame this on racism against Arabs. No other reason to describe the murder of 18,000 civilians and the bombing of schools and hospitals as defensive.
Citation needed.
According to Wikipedia the countries that consider it as terrorist are only than 13% of the world’s population. That doesn’t seem like much condemnation when 87% of the world aren’t on board.
Russia has been and is currently bombing Ukrainians on sovereign land. Pretty easy to learn this tidbit of information.
And the Palestinians are bombed where? in the skies? they are being bombed on their own land that was stolen from them, and in the refugee camps they are forced to live in. Internally displaced on their own land.
Was this supposed to draw a response? Can you reiterate your question?
I'm trying to understand why bombing Palestinians is okay when bombing Ukrainians is not. Just looking for consistency.
Palestinians are not a target of bombings in Gaza, they're sad casualties of the realities of war and conflict. Bombing non-military targets is never okay, but there's limits to the precision of weapons in use today.
There are two ways to read this:
If 2, then maybe this will help make it clear to you that the occupation military always intended to target and kill as many civilians as possible:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/defense-minister-announces-complete-siege-of-gaza-no-power-food-or-fuel/
I have not voiced my support for the Netantahu government, and am failing to see the connection to the United States official policy for a 2 state solution.
The US government has though and everyone knows that Netanyahu always opposed a Palestinian state. Netanyahu has been playing the US as a sock puppet for years.
Here was when he scammed the US into invading Iraq: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHzSr52fZLQ
Thankfully democratic institutions with likeli guide a change in Israeli policy here. Netanyahu is on his way out.
Oh... If only you were well read... You would have known...
"There is no democracy with occupation"
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/there-is-no-democracy-with-occupation/
"Meanwhile, most of protestors in Tel Aviv are wary of making this connection and are horrified by speakers who try to connect the palpable risk to democracy with the occupation of the territories or the waving of Palestinian flags in protest. However, the moment may well come when they too will recognize that there is no democracy alongside occupation."
Haven't I been reiterating my support and official US policy for a 2 state solution?
Why would Palestinians need two states?
Palestinians would want two states so they can govern themselves in a sovereign nation, while concurrently Israel can do the same.
Palestinians need a state I agree, not sure what the second state would be for
Most of the world already recognized Palestinian statehood by the way, not the US or the civilized and european west though
The second state would be the counterpart to Palestine in a 2 state solution. Based on historical context, this would be the Israeli government.
Israel isn't a real state, it's a neoimperialist attack dog that occasionally forgets its leash. It's theft and murder incarnate. If you really consider historical context to be important and still hold to a two-state solution as the ideal outcome, then I'm sorry, you're lacking a great deal of historical context and haven't the right to invoke it here.
Unfortunately the stain of religion has caused the fruition of needless casualties throughout the centuries. As the world becomes more atheistic over time due to the nature of scientic discovery, my hopes for change grow.
Broadly speaking, religion is not diminished by scientific discovery, it is diminished by people's material needs being met and their prospects looking good. Our friend Marx called that one a long time ago, but modern studies on secularization say the same thing.
But Israel/Palestine is not about religion except as a smokescreen. It is about race, specifically an overwhelmingly white population of settler colonists creating and expanding an ethnostate. The aggrievement of the Palestinians is not that Jews exist, but that their homes were taken and their family members and friends were butchered like animals.
It is most definitely rooted in religious conflict and it'd be naive to think otherwise.
No, its rooted in Western colonialism, and it's cope to think otherwise.
I've never said western colonialism hasn't had it's negative impacts, but this is grossly minimalizing historical context.
Other way around.
Care to elaborate? Your non-point responses are not encouraged in thoughtful debate, but youre welcome to do as you please.
What they are correctly suggesting is that your thesis is ignoring Israel's context as a settler-colony authored by Britain to enable what amounted to the mass-expulsion of Holocaust refugees from Europe to run an ethnostate in the Middle East that would act as an instrument for its interests.
The idea of religious conflict being the main element is completely absurd. A truly Jewish state would not forcibly sterilize Ethiopian Jews
I never claimed Britans handling of the relocation of Jewish people was perfect, many things could've been handled differently, however the conflict around Jerusalem is much older than you suggest and riddled with religious interests. Religion should not guide modern policy. At most religion should act as, "an opiate of the masses."
That conflict is a fiction invented by zionists that has only the most tenuous analogy to anything in actual history. The small number of Jewish Palestinians who were used as part of the smokescreen are out of the picture at this point, as Israel is overwhelmingly and aggressively white and has no interest is helping either Jewish or Muslim Arabs. The modern state of Israel is not based on those conflicts, there is no causal continuity, that is just a lie you have been fed. It's a white colony that is as connected to that inter-Palestinian conflict as the Nazis were connected to the Arabs of Ancient India, it's just something some racial supremacists conjured up for their fascist mythology.
Incidentally, get Marx's words out of your mouth if you won't bother to ever actually read him
"Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised." - Hamas Covenant 1988
The conflict predates Hamas by a few decades
A few millennium actually, however Hamas is the current acting government of Gaza, thus the cause for concern.
kill yourself nazi fuck
"They (Jews) were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there." - Hamas Covenant 1988
Sounds pretty darn racist to me. The same beliefs are echoed today by neo-nazis.
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)." - Hamas Covenant 1988
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
This is most certainly rooted in religious beliefs.
Jihad is what you do against colonizers, turns out
And the definition of Jihad is? Ding ding, you just landed on religious conflict, congratulations 👏
You get what you give
Exactly, like yin and yang, we must maintain mindfulness and thoughtful observation of the world around us. It promotes a better world!
Alright, I mean this in the kindest way possible, you have no idea what you're talking about. I don't have the time required nor the desire to rectify that, so I'll simply say that you've spent a regrettable amount of time here embarrassing yourself in front of people who know substantially more about history and politics than you do. Trying to debate communists on those subjects at all is generally a bad idea, but to do so armed only with natsec PR and mystery statistics is something else.
I mean personally I support communism, but I have yet to see it implemented without authoritarian influence. The Native Americans have a pretty decent communal system, which the US should learn from.
Pretty rich coming from someone on the side of
Also you do realize why socialists and communists become "authoritarian" right? It's at least partly to do with people like you who would have snitched to the Apartheid government and even attempted to kill them.
While I am going to entertain your idea of 2-states, your government doesn't and never did.
Based on official US policy, the support for a 2 state solution remains remarkably unchanged and clear.
Yet it still refuses to recognize the 2nd half of the 2-state solution. بقى احنا عبط
Oh well, we refuse to recognize Israel. It is a modern Crusader state and will go away when this phase of the Crusader Wars end.
If you don't want to debate about the requirements for peace and stability, then I don't have much more to discuss with you. Have a nice weekend!
Simple, Zionist settlers go back to where they came from, just like the Crusaders before them. Palestine is for Palestinians.
Peace will happen when the US is too broke to prop up Israel anymore.
Israel is a major player in international discourse removed from US input. They play their own cards, and we shall continue playing ours.
Either you are dumb or lying. The US will pay and in many ways that can't be foreseen for unconditionally enabling the genocide. If the US were independent, why does Israel keep dragging it into conflicts and wars? They tricked you into the invasion of Iraq and trying to get you into Yemen and Iran. If you are adamant that Israel acts independently, then it is clear who holds the leash. The US will still be a valid target because it is easier and more attackable, I don't have to leave my own country, your troops are everywhere.
I mean there may be underwater communication cables between the US and Israel, but I wouldn't equate that to a dogs leash.
Sure you can. I have seen people use ethernet cables to leash their dogs. Israel makes the US invade countries and send it aid whenever it wants.
That sounds inhumane, and I would not support animal neglect in this form.
Yet, Israel leashes your government with it. You are okay with it being done to you
I'm sorry, but can you speak literally? These metaphors are unhelpful and distract from the debate at hand.
Your government sends endless and unconditional military and financial aid to Israel that enables it to commit genocide protected by the US veto in the UN, therefore it is complicit and guilty in the massacres.
It's fairly easy to disagree with this claim, but to each their own!
You may disagree with heliocentric theory, and it may seem obvious that the sun revolves around the earth.
The sun does not in fact orbit around the earth. Have you played Kerbal Space Program? It might help with your understanding.
Yes it does. The US despite its size orbits Israel otherwise it would be antisemitic
This fails to respond to my response?
It is about the tail wagging the dog, you won’t get it
I like dogs, they're man's best friend!
Yet, they will never give me 3.50
What is 3.50?
https://youtu.be/tuh8Hip_B3w
Trey Parker and Matt Stone have had better moments.
i hope someone kills you
eat my shit and hair
I want you to consider this comment and compare it to your previous comment above. You said that the US is reducing spending on Israel because of Israel's brutal actions. Then when it was pointed out to you that they in fact were doing the opposite, your response was not to then say "wow, that's really shitty of them" but instead to try and justify their actions to yourself.
Have you no brain? No heart? No soul? No spine? Is this really the person you want to be? Someone licking the boot of the dickhead politicians in Washington so much that you'll abandon any and all morals to do so? It's ok to be mad at your government when they do shitty things, even if they are "your team."
Looks like a delicious breakfast! More bacon please 🥓
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
You can cast doubt but it still stands it's official policy.
The USA official policy does not recognise Palestine as a state.
It doesn't recognize the current government in Gaza, sure, for good reason! However it remains US policy to work towards a 2 state solution.
It does not recognise its statehood at all
Correct, as the current acting government, Hamas, uses terrorism as a tactic to guide policy change. The US will not succomb to these barbaric tactics. The US is in favor of a 2 state solution though civil discussion and mutual agreement, much like I'm trying to encourage here in this community!
This is an extremely committed bit
I don't know what you mean by bit but, I'm just trying to promote thoughtful discourse!
10/10 response. I really hope this is a bit because the alternative verges on unholy honestly
I don't know what a bit is, other than in the field of computer science, so a 0 or a 1. I don't know how I could equate the former discourse in such a domain. Care to elaborate, or rather define what a bit is in your contextualization?
You know what a bit is. This answer is a bit.
A bit of what?
I haven't been provided with a good argument against my claims, so I'm left here waiting for some decent debate.
I'd prefer you to be a bit instead of a
debate pervert
Is thoughtful debate a bad thing to promote? I'd have to disagree with that take.
Although you're doing a great bit, so you already get it
Waiting on something interesting to comment on here, take your time.
Nah, tipped your hand too hard here.
Is that a common saying? I've never heard it, nor understand what it means.
Another lover of pork! Welcome to the club mi amigo.
Contradictory