Succdem grampa's defeat has ultimately destroyed the electoral left in its entirety. The only remaining course is direct action, and given the massive hurdles to overcome, every single small victory is marred by massive looming setbacks that occur within the legal/electoral framework of the state that further entrench the difficulties already present. There is no hope for America, or the American left, nor for any left within the core.
There was no "electoral left", in any case. Bernie was barely left of center on domestic issues, and 2 degrees from a moderate neocon on foreign issues. There's plenty of hope for America and the American left, especially once those spoils of empire start drying up in a multipolar world.
I agree. There's still hope for the American Left and the Worldwide Left. One defeat means nothing. We just need to pick up the pieces and continue our work.
You are correct the Bernie was barely left of center. But in a nation as rabidly fascist as the US, he may as well have been Ho Chi Minh. The multipolar world we so long for doesn't represent hope for the American left so much as for the International, global south left, and if anything, is a return to the cold war-era status quo, marred as it was with constant proxy wars, coups, interventions and economic strangulation of states that represent an alternative to the US and neoliberalism. So, no real change from today, except now the empire, slighted in its extremely fragile ego, has no choice but to pursue the most aggressive possible policy to have its way in a dying planet ravaged by climate disasters.
The global south needs help from those in the imperial core, who can help, to help in any way they help. Just expecting the most exploited people in the world to carry the revolution alone seems like a bad strategy.
I don’t think that most people in contemporary America actually do have the economic or social power to be able to make meaningful moves against our own Imperial State.
What do you define as "meaningful"? Something that threatens to overthrow the State, or something that weakens the State? If the latter is meaningful then I'd say there's a lot that run-of-the-mill people can do.
being against something, but benefitting from it. Basically the American proleriat is comprised due to benefitting from Imperialism.
Those who benefit from imperialism are almost exclusively the capitalist class. Transnational profits pay out the shareholders first and then pay out the grunts when pigs fly. The working class in America benefit from imperialism very indirectly, if ever. Plus, this has to be considered against the workers' own exploitation, where it's hard to say if they have any net benefit. Nor are they in control of imperialism; they are controlled by capital which may then use them to justify imperial ventures.
A Mao-style land reform would do more for the average American than any amount of military or legalistic plunder. I would reach to say that freeing the working class from their expensive dependencies and scams that the market floods them with would also be a superior improvement.
At the very least we shouldn't divide the working class; we should look for a solution that is broadly applicable (with minor tweaks) around the world.
Succdem grampa’s defeat has ultimately destroyed the electoral left in its entirety.
Except for doubling the electoral left's representation in Congress, a bunch of prosecutors winning on decarceration platforms, a socialist winning the mayoral primary in Buffalo, etc.
I see this cliche repeated often, usually with reference to how the average person could never realy predict the 1917 revolution would happen etc.
But I think this is a fallacy in the same vein as nobody considers the opposite. If I were a leftist in Germany in the 1930s and believed there was no hope for a resolution or change of path in European fascism before it is too late(it was already too late?) then I'd be right, in the end we had to go to the very end game bottom of the barrel biggest disaster in history in order for things to change.
If someone is predicting the American future I'd bet on being closer to the inevitable path of European fascism in 1930 then whatever the Russian farmers were hoping for in 1910.
This is closer to my own interpretation of the now; the parallels are not 1:1, but modern America feels more and more like 1920s/30s Germany, where we're all just waiting for that one final election to initiate the beginning of the end, but it must be noted that for fascism's unsustainability, Italy's lasted for 20 years until it was forced out, Gemany's lasted 10 until it met the same fate - Spain and Portugal remained fascist all the way to the 70s as they had the good mind to stay out of the war. The smaller players of the axis (Finland, Hungary, Romania, etc) all had their fascism forcefully removed by the influence of the USSR.
The difference here is that there is no USSR this time, there is no grand antifascist alliance coming together to slay the dragon. The USA is and will be a monstrosity of which the Nazi state couldn't even have dreamed of in terms of its ability to inflict untold suffering and initiate military apocalypse. We are entirely on our own. Any change will have to come from within and from a porous border with the global south.
If fascism is a reaction to the failure of liberalism, liberalism in crisis, or what have you, then I'd say liberalism is in crisis right now. And the liberals have no other option to keep their class advantage.
So what should the American left do? Not a whole lot. If you're in any position of luxury to do so, emigrate as soon as you can. Deprive the state of as much labor-power, brainpower, and economic power as possible. Deprive it of potential suckers to stock its war machine to the point it needs to reinstate the draft. If you can't do that, then lie flat, organize your workplace, go in the woods and create a lefty militia and try not to be immediately assassinated, vote republican in an attempt to accellerate - it doesn't matter what you do because there are mechanisms in place to counter those effects.
I really don't think "the left is over because succdem grandpa lost" is a useful take, though.
Succdem grampa's defeat has ultimately destroyed the electoral left in its entirety. The only remaining course is direct action, and given the massive hurdles to overcome, every single small victory is marred by massive looming setbacks that occur within the legal/electoral framework of the state that further entrench the difficulties already present. There is no hope for America, or the American left, nor for any left within the core.
There was no "electoral left", in any case. Bernie was barely left of center on domestic issues, and 2 degrees from a moderate neocon on foreign issues. There's plenty of hope for America and the American left, especially once those spoils of empire start drying up in a multipolar world.
I agree. There's still hope for the American Left and the Worldwide Left. One defeat means nothing. We just need to pick up the pieces and continue our work.
You are correct the Bernie was barely left of center. But in a nation as rabidly fascist as the US, he may as well have been Ho Chi Minh. The multipolar world we so long for doesn't represent hope for the American left so much as for the International, global south left, and if anything, is a return to the cold war-era status quo, marred as it was with constant proxy wars, coups, interventions and economic strangulation of states that represent an alternative to the US and neoliberalism. So, no real change from today, except now the empire, slighted in its extremely fragile ego, has no choice but to pursue the most aggressive possible policy to have its way in a dying planet ravaged by climate disasters.
The global south needs help from those in the imperial core, who can help, to help in any way they help. Just expecting the most exploited people in the world to carry the revolution alone seems like a bad strategy.
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What do you define as "meaningful"? Something that threatens to overthrow the State, or something that weakens the State? If the latter is meaningful then I'd say there's a lot that run-of-the-mill people can do.
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Those who benefit from imperialism are almost exclusively the capitalist class. Transnational profits pay out the shareholders first and then pay out the grunts when pigs fly. The working class in America benefit from imperialism very indirectly, if ever. Plus, this has to be considered against the workers' own exploitation, where it's hard to say if they have any net benefit. Nor are they in control of imperialism; they are controlled by capital which may then use them to justify imperial ventures.
A Mao-style land reform would do more for the average American than any amount of military or legalistic plunder. I would reach to say that freeing the working class from their expensive dependencies and scams that the market floods them with would also be a superior improvement.
At the very least we shouldn't divide the working class; we should look for a solution that is broadly applicable (with minor tweaks) around the world.
You largely aren't wrong but we still gotta do what we can comrade, gotta keep pushing the boulder up the hill.
Except for doubling the electoral left's representation in Congress, a bunch of prosecutors winning on decarceration platforms, a socialist winning the mayoral primary in Buffalo, etc.
It's only a matter of time until they disband Buffalo, NY and just incorporate it into whatever corrupt capitalist hellhole is closest.
Nothing is ever an acknowledged possibility until it happens. Every great step of progress was unlikely.
I see this cliche repeated often, usually with reference to how the average person could never realy predict the 1917 revolution would happen etc.
But I think this is a fallacy in the same vein as nobody considers the opposite. If I were a leftist in Germany in the 1930s and believed there was no hope for a resolution or change of path in European fascism before it is too late(it was already too late?) then I'd be right, in the end we had to go to the very end game bottom of the barrel biggest disaster in history in order for things to change.
If someone is predicting the American future I'd bet on being closer to the inevitable path of European fascism in 1930 then whatever the Russian farmers were hoping for in 1910.
Both are possible but it is not 50/50 at all.
This is closer to my own interpretation of the now; the parallels are not 1:1, but modern America feels more and more like 1920s/30s Germany, where we're all just waiting for that one final election to initiate the beginning of the end, but it must be noted that for fascism's unsustainability, Italy's lasted for 20 years until it was forced out, Gemany's lasted 10 until it met the same fate - Spain and Portugal remained fascist all the way to the 70s as they had the good mind to stay out of the war. The smaller players of the axis (Finland, Hungary, Romania, etc) all had their fascism forcefully removed by the influence of the USSR.
The difference here is that there is no USSR this time, there is no grand antifascist alliance coming together to slay the dragon. The USA is and will be a monstrosity of which the Nazi state couldn't even have dreamed of in terms of its ability to inflict untold suffering and initiate military apocalypse. We are entirely on our own. Any change will have to come from within and from a porous border with the global south.
If fascism is a reaction to the failure of liberalism, liberalism in crisis, or what have you, then I'd say liberalism is in crisis right now. And the liberals have no other option to keep their class advantage.
So what should the American left do? Not a whole lot. If you're in any position of luxury to do so, emigrate as soon as you can. Deprive the state of as much labor-power, brainpower, and economic power as possible. Deprive it of potential suckers to stock its war machine to the point it needs to reinstate the draft. If you can't do that, then lie flat, organize your workplace, go in the woods and create a lefty militia and try not to be immediately assassinated, vote republican in an attempt to accellerate - it doesn't matter what you do because there are mechanisms in place to counter those effects.
deleted by creator