I didn't even watch the video, but there's a lot of pure ideology going on in this thread. Too many fart huffing liberals for me to dunk on myself.

  • Yun [he/him]
    ·
    edit-2
    3 years ago

    I didn’t even watch the video

    ngl I'm pretty sick of seeing this kind of shit in online left communities although I suppose it's to be expected of online communities in general considering how their platforms are designed. I watched the video and also the Parenti one and what they say comes across as pretty reasonable. These are good faith actors putting forth a reasoned argument and yet people just shit on them without even really engaging with any of their points.

    • Catherine_Steward [she/her]
      ·
      3 years ago

      I gave him a good 30 seconds or so and he started talking about how we're not gonna get fascist class traitors on board with our movement by saying death to America. Yeah, no shit. We're not going to get them on board with any socialist project, regardless of how much you pretend there's something salvageable about the United States. The idea that we can simply hang an American flag up in the background of our socialist monologues and get the support of subhuman chuds is utterly laughable and naive. There's nothing these chuds hate more than liberals, and liberals actually do love America and all its racist, genocidal tyranny. How is pretending to love America going to win them over?

      • ComradeBongwater [he/him]
        ·
        3 years ago

        :this:

        We've got a better message in saying everything is fucked than trying to do the "omg america so good, but why can't we be a little less racist".

        If a socialist is to succeed electorally, they either have to run as a Republican and convince them they're fighting for conservatism/"the working class" or go entirely scorched earth on people's perception of contemporary and past America.

        I'm convinced that all you need to do to win over enough republicans to win in the general is to torch all of their other systemic bogeymen. Google IS trying to control your thoughts. The media IS liberal, i.e. protecting viewership by not being overtly racist, but also not supporting anything that benefits people over corporations. Sympathize with the anti-vax dipshits by saying they're right to mistrust big pharma. Place all of the problems with homelessness, inner city education, housing & tuition costs, and crime squarely on the liberals.

        Take whatever it is the right-wing media machine is getting people pissed about, agree, get pissed about it too, then direct blame from marginalized people to liberals and wealthy capitalists.

        Do socialism, be mad, blame libs.

        • andys_nuts [none/use name]
          ·
          3 years ago

          If a socialist is to succeed electorally, they either have to run as a Republican

          Is there any way this works, or turns out well?

          or go entirely scorched earth on people’s perception of contemporary and past America

          Look at how much shit Bernie caught for comments as mundane as "Cuba has good healthcare and education." Is tripling down on that approach going to work?

      • andys_nuts [none/use name]
        ·
        3 years ago

        It's not about appealing to chuds, it's about appealing to people who might actually be persuadable, but who aren't currently leftists. There are lots of folks out there who are receptive to all sorts of leftist ideas but balk at something as "tame" as calling Iraq and Afghanistan imperial wars.

        If we had decades, maybe we could bring a decent chunk of non-chuds around to the idea that there are precious few things the U.S. has to be proud of. But we don't have the luxury of time, and it's not absolutely necessary to have that at the core of a socialist movement. That can be worked out after we figure out how to get some appreciable amount of political power (and then it'll probably be far easier).

        • Catherine_Steward [she/her]
          ·
          3 years ago

          There are lots of folks out there who are receptive to all sorts of leftist ideas but balk at something as “tame” as calling Iraq and Afghanistan imperial wars.

          Then they'd better learn. Liberals are not my comrades.

          • andys_nuts [none/use name]
            ·
            3 years ago

            We can shit on libs all we want, but we can't run from the fact that we need to convince millions of them to see things our way if we want a snowball's chance in hell at getting anything significant done.

            We need to get the "mass" part of a mass movement from somewhere. So where are we getting the bulk of people we'll need to seize state power (by whatever means you prefer) if we're writing off all the libs from the jump? Keep in mind that Bernie leaned hard into activating people who aren't ordinarily political, and while that had some success it wasn't close to enough by itself.

            • Catherine_Steward [she/her]
              ·
              3 years ago

              Almost every single person here was a lib at some point, and not a single one of us arrived here by leftists coddling us and saying that actually it's okay to be in favor of genocide.

    • mrbigcheese [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      3 years ago

      ok i tried to watch it but the american flag hanging in the background burned my retinas so i had to turn it off sorry

      • Yun [he/him]
        ·
        3 years ago

        Parenti video has no flag: https://youtu.be/4vKfejeruhk