Now is the time to log on, folks. I'll meet you there.
"We need to think about our impact on the world and show more solidarity with the people being exploited to maintain this unsustainable system we're benefiting from."
STOP DIVIDING US!I think this is an example of taking everything as absolutes, that acknowledging that labor aristocracy is a problem can’t just be a call for taking that into consideration and actively working to address it. No, it must mean they’re arguing there’s an intractable gulf between the working class in the “developed” world and in the “undeveloped” world and thus no international solidarity.
Probably, but people who do that also tend to not be arguing in good faith, in my opinion.
It’s a problem that can go both ways. You’ve got types like this where they don’t want to hear about the shortcomings of social democracy in the West and where the wealth comes from so they yell about solidarity. But there are some types on the other end that use this as an excuse to check out; “Western leftists are too tainted with labor aristocracy, the revolution will come from the periphery, so I don’t need to get involved in activism here in the West.”
There's some weird shit in this whole kerfuffle like this guy claiming he met one person canvassing who was dismayed the DSA hadn't taken a position on Hong Kong or something and that's what's at stake here
Show
Lol, dude's reaching deep into their back pocket for that one.
We really struck a nerve with this dude lmao. https://twitter.com/RefuseRaccoon/status/1738287986494894392
I think they like the attention. Y'all are gonna be their next article on the "Toxic Left".
He always does this shit. Pissing people off then acting superior and impressing no one other than himself. That or copying joke references from DSA twitter.
Like Alexander Reid Ross and other negative clout academikkks who are willing to tell people they've been stalking our forums, he's just become a joke to me. Maybe like Ross he will get ousted for sexual harrassment.
fuck it @Kaplya@hexbear.net @Maoo@hexbear.net you may enjoy the larger shitstorm this is a part of, if you partake of the hellsite
I have no account on that particular website but goddamn do I hate that one guy already
It's basically just a bunch of actually based third worldist not-insane-MLM posters (and BadEmpanada in the mix because he loves to be half right and half wrong about everything to maximize pissing people) off arguing with Jacobin and DSA ppl who resent the existence of the International Committee, the only part I like
Imagining forcing these losers to read Settlers while I stand behind them nodding their head for them and going, "mm-hmm, mm-m".
While I agree with the sentiment part of the issue is Settlers is one of the only sources for this kind of stuff they have other than Jason Unruhe. This is the Samir Amin fanclub so they are fucked. You can see how fast the arguments fall apart. They don't want it to come down to questions about how labor has changed in the US past few decades. They dismiss the entire concept of unequal exchange outright because they sense it could have uncomfortable implications.
I get the feeling we are in a better place to understand why they arrive at these conclusions than they are. Carl's been at this since before Iraq II, he loves to scold people about that. I just got here, how is this possible. I'm going to Get Rich And Become God I guess.
Just kidding we're all decades behind this stuff why the fuck was Dialectics of Dependency only translated in 2018. I'm going insane.
I think they're extremely unsophisticated folks that just want to confirm their SocDem biases and sometimes that means a religious belief in a radical US working class. And per the screenshot, often limiting one's understanding of liberation to the issues of proletarianizan now faced by white people in the imperial core, issues they absolutely did not and do not care about wrt anyone else. Healthcare, housing, shit wages, insecurity, etc. They saw Bernie, said, "yeah", and then entrenched themselves and punch left rather than engaging with the basic facts of imperialism. They fetishize discourse and then act like babies during confrontation.
Occasionally they fool themselves into thinking that they're actually socialists just trying to approach the working class on terms that will resonate with them, and this they view criticism of SocDemery as getting in the way of progress to socialism. A ton of trots think this way and there is a lot of trot thinking at Jacobin/the DSA, conscious or unconscious. DSA was founded by an anticommunist trot and the big influx of Bernie supporters are struggling to self-radicalize in a context where struggles are framed in watered-down trot language and thinking.
💯💯💯 My only bit to add here is the figures they latch on to as examples of anti-imperialism are very telling. If you think of Unruhe or Haz or twitter posters first, you should have your "out of touch" and "too online" cards taken away for life
No my bad that's misleading, I was like 19 quote tweets deep this morning. It's just a lot of twitch/yt addicted people's first point of contact with anti imperialist views. I shouldn't even waste my time.
lmao never had an account there and never will.
But this is just standard Western leftists (“Marxists” even) who are “anti-imperialist when it’s convenient to me, but when my treat supplies are threatened I’m gonna do some imperialist propaganda”
and
“workers in the periphery don’t have a right to fight back against imperialism without MY permission! it’s not the right time to do this, you’re only gonna make the situation worse for yourself (while I stand idly by mocking you). it’s only the right time WHEN I SAY SO (meanwhile, we are on our way to overthrow our bourgeois governments in the West in approximately… 125 years)”
The best argument for Third-Worldism is a five minute conversation with the average Western Leftist.
We're not even "third worldists" we are fourth worldists lmao we tend to leave the settlers in the dust theoretically
Man thinks that the core's economy collapsing after being deprived of all the free labor from neocolonialism would not hurt any worker
He surely knows his Marx and his Lenin by heart
Man thinks that the core's economy collapsing after being deprived of all the free labor from neocolonialism would not hurt any worker
there's an infographic that's gone around here suggesting that
is so unequal that the average person here would be better off with a globally equal distribution of wealth.cut off full stop? sure that's gonna cause problems. Walling the 1% and paying fairly for that formerly colonized labor would go as smoothly as the bourgeoise would let it.
Yes I totally agree, this is why in itself the guy we're dunking on isn't absolutely wrong, in the sense that, global socialism is better for everyone. But the thing is, walling the 1% (aka revolution since the 1% have all power in the current system) is very hard, and Imperial core workers aren't showing enough organisation, skills and... Minecraft-only tactics, for this to happen.
So it is right to say that they are at odds with the global South proletariat in the sense that in the present, Imperial core workers fear economic crisis, and would in part support military interventions to maintain colonial power under the guise of democracy and freedom.
If the worker's movement in the global North turns to solidarity and revolutionary defeatism, then it's a banger and we'll all be better off
he "didn't write 'Tubular Bells,'" in case anyone was wondering
It’s anti-Leninist to talk about the imperialist opportunism Lenin wrote about
Marx even wrote that the English Proletariat were a “bourgious-proletariat” and that without many “very difficult years” nothing would change in England
Where does this whole notion that this kind of analysis, that is similar to world's systems theory, is actually not marxist come from? Saw some people on hexbear say the same thing. There are plenty of Marxist ways to analyse the contradictions between the global north and south. The school of thought known as global historical materialism exists, and evidently is based on Marxism, with concepts such as the law of worldwide value. Samir Amin basically dedicated his whole life to studying this from a Marxist point of view. You can disagree with his analysis, but it is still clearly based off of Marx.
When you actually start quoting Samir Amin to these people, they lose their goddamned minds.
I had someone telling me he was a Nazbol or "apologist for feudalism" (????) because he was exploring the differences between European feudalism and other tributary modes of production
I guess we're just supposed to post the "improve society somewhat" comic or the Monty Python bit where they find a commune of peasants living in pure filth
For a second I thought the Ommadawn guy was really based
