Dude in sometimes hanged out with in university wanted Vietnam to become a puppet of USA. Capitalism is all-pervasive so your experience is clearly nothing rare.
On an unrelated note, I am dreading my decision to follow game development. Am I supposed to please these terrible people with my labor of love? Hoo boy, I can't wait to see the dipshits drool over the Vietnam bits in the next Cowadoody!
I'm coming from a Buddhist perspective, so please excuse me if this is too blunt and out of the left field. The thing is that it did not really change them. The seeds of karma compelling them to become reactionaries were always there. They simply hatched and became brainworms from encountering favorable conditions: the increasingly irreconcilable contradictions of capitalism. This is how I reconcile Buddhism and Marxism. Both are intent on looking honestly and directly at the human condition. Even reactionaries should be shown compassion so I can't quite vibe with celebrating knocking pigs out with bricks. It just doesn't help anyone.
Bonus: the case against reality. People are the way they are because they only survive thanks to their inability to see the truth.
My somewhat related anecdote:
Back in the Warcraft III days, I preferred fairer custom maps that promoted skill and fair play. Some of my friends at that time preferred anime arena-esque maps that promoted exploiting the unbalanced mechanics and dominating other players. I wasn't really surprised when they became a bunch of free market cultists and began quoting and praising Reagan lmao. To this day I still can't see why anyone would play those shitty unbalanced maps, and yet there were plenty who loved them.
I worry about that interpretation, since it might imply there's not much you can do to help people who buy into worms because they are already that way. I might be misinterpreting though.
I had a friend who was, as recently as last year, edging into brainworm territory. He tried to sell me on Jordan Peterson, if that's an indication. He's since moved in with his leftist friends as roommates, and now he's really starting to come around. It's a huge relief, and I'm really happy both at the situation as well as for him. He's started giving way more thought into what he thinks, why he thinks it, and what to do going forward. I want to believe that a majority of those like his past self were just victims of their situation, and that while some may be predisposed to chud, that's not at all deterministic.
Interesting perspective, though it's spoken to my lately-desperate need for another guiding principle that isn't rooted in anger because I feel myself slowly becoming colder and less empathetic towards people I deem as harmful to society. I want a way both out of viewing the average person as an ideological enemy and feeling more compassionate and patient overall, but every route I see feels like willful blindness.
I find Michael Brooks' saying helpful: "Be ruthless with institutions and kind with people." Of course, people perpetuate those institutions, but they're just a cog in the machine.
I'm definitely not advocating for enlightened centrism here since too many dumbasses have mistaken it for the Middle Path, but reactionaries also think that they are attacking people harmful to society. Moreover, society isn't some holy shit that we must defend at all cost. After the collapse of matriarchy, almost all societies have been built upon the suffering of an underclass. Dalit, slaves, serfs, wage laborers, etc. They have all failed because of their weak foundations and so will capitalist societies in due time. Will communism truly achieve its goal by establishing a society built upon the act of othering antisocial individuals? A society is only worth working towards when it actually works for all in my opinion.
I can only share with you practices that have helped me. Try finding the similarities between you and them. When I contemplate on how close I was to becoming a shithead and how fortunate I was to find the signposts along the path towards communism, I often find my murderous rage towards reactionaries diminish rapidly (of course that doesn't work every time lmao). It really doesn't take much at all for you and I to become just like them. Look at cunts like Gates, Bezos and Musk. Do you think their wealth can make them truly happy? Capitalism screws everyone, rich or poor, sinner or saint. If they were so happy, they wouldn't do so much fucked up shit like pedo stuff or weird cult rituals to find some excitement to fill the gaping hole in their hearts. I have read testimonies from people working with the rich that behind closed doors, they often confess how much they are suffering, regretting and yet still too afraid to let go of the system. Think about your complicity in the suffering of others. The current system doesn't really work for anyone and makes everyone participate in it as an accomplice of evil. Love your enemies not because you like the way they are. Love them because you get to be what you are thanks to them being what they are and holy shit being such terrible people isn't pleasant at all to say the least. I wouldn't want to become like them even if you offered me the world for it. Take a long hard look at r/beholdthemasterrace. Ask yourself if those people look a least bit happy. Liberals point at and shit on racists, but lately I can only pity them. If you can't love or accept, maybe start with pitying them.
I hope you will find some help from what I said.
A large issue here is that it's measurably easier to pity hard conservatives due to many of them appearing comically miserable in their hatred, which leaves frustration with a pervasive neoliberal attitude. This community itself directs most of its ire daily on the main page at "liberals being liberals".
While I don't think this shoots holes in your argument, what would you say to today's top story on Reddit where members are upset about Melania Trump renovating the White House garden? Her interior decoration and landscape changes are a symbolically important issue to them, whereas Joe Biden voting for the Patriot Act and the Iraq War... aren't, in their growing warmth for him. It sounds ridiculous to be angry at the attention this story got, doesn't it? But it took a few minutes out of my day and my peace of mind, because I saw it as another example of obsession with image over substance.
You can dismiss this as the Internet being the Internet -- that I'd benefit from logging off (which is also true) -- but I met these people all the time in America. I left my home country partly because of it. I worked at a newspaper that held a staff meeting about pursuing progressive stories but then refused to give a local BLM leader a platform because he had a criminal record and it would "look unsightly for our readers". When I argued that it was a classist approach I was met with blithe condescension, because I was being the unreasonable one after all. Shortly thereafter a co-worker spoke about getting more good photographs "from black neighborhoods" for the front page of the paper.
It's more difficult to find peace with moderate liberals because they are the ever-scolding gatekeepers, clucking their tongues and wringing their hands as they look down on you while effectually doing nothing.
Lately I've taken to saying that while people can be fundamentally decent, they can often possess technical knowledge while lacking structural awareness. Being kind interpersonally and being aware are not the same thing, which has lessened my disappointment somewhat. Still, finding my way out of this endless frustration has been a source of exhaustion for me over at least the past two years -- or at least a solution that hasn't involved closing myself off to people. Anymore when I meet someone new and I get a vibe from them that they value civility or image over morality, I try to bite my tongue and dismiss it. But they almost always manage to disappoint.
And then I also lapse into black moods where the majority of the people I've ever met in my life are worthless and I begin pouring energy into saying something that shocks them momentarily, even if it's the most randomly cruel thing I can think of to say that challenges their self-perception. Because that's the only difference you can see: one second where they're shocked and uncomfortable. When I left my job, my co-workers didn't say goodbye or wish me good luck.
A large part of my endeavors recently has been finding a way out of this mindset while not deluding myself into recognizing that they have any validity, because I know they don't.
tl;dr -- People are phonies and I hate that I can still identify with Holden Caulfield as a grown adult, because it wasn't supposed to be this way.
I don't really have any argument man. I just shared with Mencoh practices that have helped lessen my rage somewhat. I'm just as clueless as anyone else when it comes to trying to separate individuals from the horrific systems that they enable, my family members and relatives included.
About liberals being liberals, hardly anything can be done about that. This is another similarity between us and them: everyone is largely powerless against and overwhelmed by capitalism. Maybe deep down they believe that a better system is truly impossible. I know it's extremely infuriating to be told that again and again, but things are just as they are.
One important practice that has helped me tremendously and yet I forgot to mention yesterday in hurry: Yidam practice. Basically, instead of being angry about phonies, you fully embrace your own phoniness. I assumed an attitude of absolute pride and holy hell it actually worked to my surprise! In that mental state, I stopped getting angry at people being shitty and simply found them hilarious to the point of finding myself actually smirking at their bullshit. Their shittiness rolled off my mind just like water droplets rolling off a lotus leaf. I kept being like that for a few weeks but then decided to stop because I didn't want to become a psychopath. Moreover, being in that mental state helped me see the value of my usual vulnerable and empathetic self that I had tried to change. I think that experience really helped me to not take myself and my suffering too seriously. Warning: it worked for me but that doesn't mean it is guaranteed to work for you! I was living dangerously and didn't care about the clear warnings associated with this practice. Thinking back now, that was completely reckless.
a way out of this mindset while not deluding myself
I think you need the experience of being in a completely different mental state in order to dispel your doubts. Vipassana didn't work for me but maybe it will help you. Even psychedelics, if legal and available where you live, should be considered. Years ago I read about this old dude who had been a skeptic his whole life before he experienced a transcendental state after being fed a poisonous candy by a robber in Thailand. Good luck on your path!
Are you a westerner, by chance? I’ve been interested in Buddhism for a few years now, but I can’t figure out how to like...become Buddhist lol. I’m agnostic and not religious, but I’ve wanted to take some of the secular aspects of Buddhism and apply them to my life, but have no idea where to even start. Care to share any starting points?
My understanding is that Buddhism acknowledges that life is full of suffering and pain, but if you live a certain way you can find inner peace and be a better person to those around you.
No I'm Vietnamese. The only way to officially become a Buddhist is finding a master and getting a dharma name, which is unrealistic for a westerner. It's not like doing so will make you a better person in any case. I can never forget that strange white Buddhist nun who is a devout supporter of Kamala Harris lmao. I've also seen plenty of monks over here who indulge in luxuries and give blatant preferable treatment to rich folks.
Just walk your own path. Buddhism ain't going to save any significant number of people in this era.
Dude in sometimes hanged out with in university wanted Vietnam to become a puppet of USA. Capitalism is all-pervasive so your experience is clearly nothing rare.
On an unrelated note, I am dreading my decision to follow game development. Am I supposed to please these terrible people with my labor of love? Hoo boy, I can't wait to see the dipshits drool over the Vietnam bits in the next Cowadoody!
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“You didn’t see them change overnight; you saw them give up on being better than society requires them to be.”
Damn, I wonder if that has something to do with why both of my brothers have become increasingly more racist and chuddy over the last ten years.
I'm coming from a Buddhist perspective, so please excuse me if this is too blunt and out of the left field. The thing is that it did not really change them. The seeds of karma compelling them to become reactionaries were always there. They simply hatched and became brainworms from encountering favorable conditions: the increasingly irreconcilable contradictions of capitalism. This is how I reconcile Buddhism and Marxism. Both are intent on looking honestly and directly at the human condition. Even reactionaries should be shown compassion so I can't quite vibe with celebrating knocking pigs out with bricks. It just doesn't help anyone.
Bonus: the case against reality. People are the way they are because they only survive thanks to their inability to see the truth.
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My somewhat related anecdote:
Back in the Warcraft III days, I preferred fairer custom maps that promoted skill and fair play. Some of my friends at that time preferred anime arena-esque maps that promoted exploiting the unbalanced mechanics and dominating other players. I wasn't really surprised when they became a bunch of free market cultists and began quoting and praising Reagan lmao. To this day I still can't see why anyone would play those shitty unbalanced maps, and yet there were plenty who loved them.
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Holy shit! Truly r/nottheonion material. Thank you for the unexpected laughter. Really fascinating. I will be thinking about this for a while.
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I worry about that interpretation, since it might imply there's not much you can do to help people who buy into worms because they are already that way. I might be misinterpreting though. I had a friend who was, as recently as last year, edging into brainworm territory. He tried to sell me on Jordan Peterson, if that's an indication. He's since moved in with his leftist friends as roommates, and now he's really starting to come around. It's a huge relief, and I'm really happy both at the situation as well as for him. He's started giving way more thought into what he thinks, why he thinks it, and what to do going forward. I want to believe that a majority of those like his past self were just victims of their situation, and that while some may be predisposed to chud, that's not at all deterministic.
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Interesting perspective, though it's spoken to my lately-desperate need for another guiding principle that isn't rooted in anger because I feel myself slowly becoming colder and less empathetic towards people I deem as harmful to society. I want a way both out of viewing the average person as an ideological enemy and feeling more compassionate and patient overall, but every route I see feels like willful blindness.
I find Michael Brooks' saying helpful: "Be ruthless with institutions and kind with people." Of course, people perpetuate those institutions, but they're just a cog in the machine.
I'm definitely not advocating for enlightened centrism here since too many dumbasses have mistaken it for the Middle Path, but reactionaries also think that they are attacking people harmful to society. Moreover, society isn't some holy shit that we must defend at all cost. After the collapse of matriarchy, almost all societies have been built upon the suffering of an underclass. Dalit, slaves, serfs, wage laborers, etc. They have all failed because of their weak foundations and so will capitalist societies in due time. Will communism truly achieve its goal by establishing a society built upon the act of othering antisocial individuals? A society is only worth working towards when it actually works for all in my opinion.
I can only share with you practices that have helped me. Try finding the similarities between you and them. When I contemplate on how close I was to becoming a shithead and how fortunate I was to find the signposts along the path towards communism, I often find my murderous rage towards reactionaries diminish rapidly (of course that doesn't work every time lmao). It really doesn't take much at all for you and I to become just like them. Look at cunts like Gates, Bezos and Musk. Do you think their wealth can make them truly happy? Capitalism screws everyone, rich or poor, sinner or saint. If they were so happy, they wouldn't do so much fucked up shit like pedo stuff or weird cult rituals to find some excitement to fill the gaping hole in their hearts. I have read testimonies from people working with the rich that behind closed doors, they often confess how much they are suffering, regretting and yet still too afraid to let go of the system. Think about your complicity in the suffering of others. The current system doesn't really work for anyone and makes everyone participate in it as an accomplice of evil. Love your enemies not because you like the way they are. Love them because you get to be what you are thanks to them being what they are and holy shit being such terrible people isn't pleasant at all to say the least. I wouldn't want to become like them even if you offered me the world for it. Take a long hard look at r/beholdthemasterrace. Ask yourself if those people look a least bit happy. Liberals point at and shit on racists, but lately I can only pity them. If you can't love or accept, maybe start with pitying them.
I hope you will find some help from what I said.
A large issue here is that it's measurably easier to pity hard conservatives due to many of them appearing comically miserable in their hatred, which leaves frustration with a pervasive neoliberal attitude. This community itself directs most of its ire daily on the main page at "liberals being liberals".
While I don't think this shoots holes in your argument, what would you say to today's top story on Reddit where members are upset about Melania Trump renovating the White House garden? Her interior decoration and landscape changes are a symbolically important issue to them, whereas Joe Biden voting for the Patriot Act and the Iraq War... aren't, in their growing warmth for him. It sounds ridiculous to be angry at the attention this story got, doesn't it? But it took a few minutes out of my day and my peace of mind, because I saw it as another example of obsession with image over substance.
You can dismiss this as the Internet being the Internet -- that I'd benefit from logging off (which is also true) -- but I met these people all the time in America. I left my home country partly because of it. I worked at a newspaper that held a staff meeting about pursuing progressive stories but then refused to give a local BLM leader a platform because he had a criminal record and it would "look unsightly for our readers". When I argued that it was a classist approach I was met with blithe condescension, because I was being the unreasonable one after all. Shortly thereafter a co-worker spoke about getting more good photographs "from black neighborhoods" for the front page of the paper.
It's more difficult to find peace with moderate liberals because they are the ever-scolding gatekeepers, clucking their tongues and wringing their hands as they look down on you while effectually doing nothing.
Lately I've taken to saying that while people can be fundamentally decent, they can often possess technical knowledge while lacking structural awareness. Being kind interpersonally and being aware are not the same thing, which has lessened my disappointment somewhat. Still, finding my way out of this endless frustration has been a source of exhaustion for me over at least the past two years -- or at least a solution that hasn't involved closing myself off to people. Anymore when I meet someone new and I get a vibe from them that they value civility or image over morality, I try to bite my tongue and dismiss it. But they almost always manage to disappoint.
And then I also lapse into black moods where the majority of the people I've ever met in my life are worthless and I begin pouring energy into saying something that shocks them momentarily, even if it's the most randomly cruel thing I can think of to say that challenges their self-perception. Because that's the only difference you can see: one second where they're shocked and uncomfortable. When I left my job, my co-workers didn't say goodbye or wish me good luck.
A large part of my endeavors recently has been finding a way out of this mindset while not deluding myself into recognizing that they have any validity, because I know they don't.
tl;dr -- People are phonies and I hate that I can still identify with Holden Caulfield as a grown adult, because it wasn't supposed to be this way.
I don't really have any argument man. I just shared with Mencoh practices that have helped lessen my rage somewhat. I'm just as clueless as anyone else when it comes to trying to separate individuals from the horrific systems that they enable, my family members and relatives included.
About liberals being liberals, hardly anything can be done about that. This is another similarity between us and them: everyone is largely powerless against and overwhelmed by capitalism. Maybe deep down they believe that a better system is truly impossible. I know it's extremely infuriating to be told that again and again, but things are just as they are.
One important practice that has helped me tremendously and yet I forgot to mention yesterday in hurry: Yidam practice. Basically, instead of being angry about phonies, you fully embrace your own phoniness. I assumed an attitude of absolute pride and holy hell it actually worked to my surprise! In that mental state, I stopped getting angry at people being shitty and simply found them hilarious to the point of finding myself actually smirking at their bullshit. Their shittiness rolled off my mind just like water droplets rolling off a lotus leaf. I kept being like that for a few weeks but then decided to stop because I didn't want to become a psychopath. Moreover, being in that mental state helped me see the value of my usual vulnerable and empathetic self that I had tried to change. I think that experience really helped me to not take myself and my suffering too seriously.
Warning: it worked for me but that doesn't mean it is guaranteed to work for you! I was living dangerously and didn't care about the clear warnings associated with this practice. Thinking back now, that was completely reckless.
I think you need the experience of being in a completely different mental state in order to dispel your doubts. Vipassana didn't work for me but maybe it will help you. Even psychedelics, if legal and available where you live, should be considered. Years ago I read about this old dude who had been a skeptic his whole life before he experienced a transcendental state after being fed a poisonous candy by a robber in Thailand. Good luck on your path!
Are you a westerner, by chance? I’ve been interested in Buddhism for a few years now, but I can’t figure out how to like...become Buddhist lol. I’m agnostic and not religious, but I’ve wanted to take some of the secular aspects of Buddhism and apply them to my life, but have no idea where to even start. Care to share any starting points?
My understanding is that Buddhism acknowledges that life is full of suffering and pain, but if you live a certain way you can find inner peace and be a better person to those around you.
I enjoyed Hardcore Zen by Brad Warner when I was in my teens (nearly 2 decades ago now...).
Nice, thanks! I found it on the ebook app that I use, I’ll give it a look tonight.
No I'm Vietnamese. The only way to officially become a Buddhist is finding a master and getting a dharma name, which is unrealistic for a westerner. It's not like doing so will make you a better person in any case. I can never forget that strange white Buddhist nun who is a devout supporter of Kamala Harris lmao. I've also seen plenty of monks over here who indulge in luxuries and give blatant preferable treatment to rich folks.
Just walk your own path. Buddhism ain't going to save any significant number of people in this era.