I don't think I really need to explain much, their admins are transphobic. 
https://hexbear.net/post/1587342
Snowe, an admin, complained about a transgender person being offended over being misgendered. Ategon made an apology post but keeps snowe on, no public apologies from snowe to the transgender people affected.
Textbook 
note: conversation about Ategon's use of the word triggered edited out, might be misunderstanding, need clarified
They're probably just jealous that all the best programmers are trans
Programming.dev admins layering on programming socks like WHY ISNT IT WORKING
Isn't it funny how the anti-"tankies" are always the most bigoted people?
how does all this fascism keep getting into my anticommunism?!
lmao dammit you're gonna give me an ego!alright how about LOOK UPON MY POSTS, YE MIGHTY, AND DESPAIR
hexbear is so transphobic with the uhhhh unlimited love and support it shows to trans people
Not your fault you scratched a coupla libs. Given enough time, any pushback woulda done it.
really burying the lede that one of their admins loves the harry potter and the protocols of the elder goblins game, that's reason to defed alone
yeah, not meaning to do that on purpose, im well aware, im just a sleepy lady and didnt want to type much but i have duped myself once again
pretty good chance if you come across a programming.dev user commenting on hexbear it'll be some reactionary shit, too
given the comments are far worse than what the admins have said, yep
programming should be a profession in the way writing is. The only reason it's not a universal skill is because the field is full of manchildren who either fetishize shitty technology from the 70s for aesthetic reasons or don't actually know how to code so they build 15 layers of abstractions on top of eachother and 90% of the effort is spent dealing with the garbage these people spew out.
I like it as a puzzle solving exercise - fitting shaped blocks together in my head and letting the compiler tell me how my answer doesn't make sense. but yeah, it attracts the worst people. I've met... 5?... cool people in a dozen years working professionally.
IMO there wouldn't be a distinction between programming and just using a computer if these ppl weren't so convinced they were super special bois and everyone else should only use computers through software made for toddlers.
Most of my students don't even know what a directory is.
I mean that kinda proves my point. They don't know what a directory is because they spent most of their time on computers(phones and tablets) that hid the file system from them. It's not like it's a particularly hard concept to grasp.
I'm struggling with this notion of something being hard to grasp. I don't think that's an intrinsic property of the concept itself so much as environmentally determined; they don't need to know what a directory is, so they don't ever learn it, and when it comes up in a classroom, it's so removed from their daily experiences that some of them never seem to grasp it.
I dunno, it's a dialectic a guess.
yeah I agree. My main gripe is that instead of one environment that everyone uses for computers, bazingas make this weird caste system where they interact through computers in an actually robust environment, and make the masses interact through a dumbed down interface that can't do anything. The justification is usually some dumb aphorism about "the user being dumb" which is just ego stroking BS.
Being able to read and write was considered a rare skill that commanded a high position in society too. Scarcity doesn't mean that the field is inherently hard.
In theory, getting a CS degree is about mastering computer science. In practice, CS grads spend their time memorizing the syntax for 30 different types of regex and write CRUD apps their entire career. The particularly talented ones will devote their time to creating a 31st variant of regex 30 layers of abstraction away from the actual hardware that uses more resources than an actual supercomputer from 2008. Ask these people basic questions about something as simple and commonplace as unicode and they'll get it wrong more likely than not. This is why if you go on the orange site they constantly complain about having to solve the most basic problems during interviews.
So where we are right now is the medieval scribes stage of development. Most of these people's only skill is that they can write code at all, not that they're particularly good at it. Just like a medieval scribe's main skill is simply the ability to read and write at all, and not like, literary analysis or philology.
In practice, CS grads spend their time memorizing the syntax for 30 different types of regex and write CRUD apps their entire career.
I think it depends on the school you go to. some programs are basically math degrees and others are glorified job training of the type your describing. of course, to get a job after school, recruiters expect you to have both the CS theory and direct experience writing code. they stop checking for the CS background after the first job because it's not something anyone stays proficient in, except in a rough heuristic sort of way. most training happens after you graduate in your first job or two.
the main differences between coding and writing are that 1. the former is predominantly a team activity and 2. the interface with the machine forces a maintenance burden on everyone that interacts with the code. in tandem, this means that if you write bad code, it's not just your problem - it's not merely that another person reading your code will struggle to understand what you mean but also that someone else after you will have to figure out how to change it to meet new needs.
capitalists try constantly to eliminate these factors and turn software into something that can be mass produced for no/little cost but they keep failing (for now) because they try to ignore the social factors (same reason AI code won't work for a while yet). that doesn't justify programmer egos, it's just an explanation of how software development differs from normal writing.
Well what I'm describing isn't really school specific. The majority of CS grads are careerists who really don't care about the actual field. At least in my achool where they are the biggest major. It seems they cheat through the theory part because they know they're gonna make 100k writing CRUD apps. This isn't a moral indictment or anything. I'm pointing this out to show that most professional programmers don't actually use any theory. What they do day to day should in theory should be trivial enough that most people could do it. In an ideal world that would be the case, and CS majors would only be needed for things requiring actual deep knowledge, much like professional writers.
I do agree that the issue is social. It's a matter of educational policy and for lack of a better word, orthography.
what I'm saying is that people have been trying to trivialize it for 60+ years and it hasn't worked yet - it remains a trade that takes ~8 years in and out of school to achieve useful proficiency.
If there's one lesson to be learned from federation, it's that shitty admins lead to shitty instances.
It was also always sus that they blocked a bunch of our comms by default
Also why is the other admin putting out this statement? Is the snowe still seething and crying too much to apologize?
It's fascinating watching blahaj and blahaj adjacent redditors spin the narrative in real time to feel like they're just smol bean white ciahet programmers being attacked by elaborate trolls.
Don't worry they're the good ones
The blahaj defederation thread is absolutely chock-full of seething about Hexbear, which is very funny
I think the funniest outgrowth of federation is people getting extremely fucking mad that other people are posting and replying to them about their dogshit opinions.
Ummm excuse me that's called a brigade, which is a real thing that everyone has to pretend to take very seriously
"um actually the completely empty bar atmosphere we've been cultivating is actually our site culture which you are imperializing by settling your posts here"
This genuinely read to me as them using "triggered" in the other sense, like "caused," as gets used in programming speak sometimes. I would never try to argue this as being true because I feel silly in retrospect, but just thought I'd share.
yeah now that two people have said it, gonna edit it out. i feel like this is my brain doing some weird flips, czechs hell of a drug
Your reading is very reasonable (I think that a general audience of native English speakers would be split on the which sense was being used), so there's no need to blame yourself either way.
nah they're referring to branches of a comment thread being "triggered" in the colloquial sense unless i'm misunderstanding the narrative around the images I can't see (and won't bother going to programming.dev to see)
I read Ategon's post and while I appreciate their attempt at reconciliation(?), when you look at the actual internal changes they're making:
- admins will be required to have two accounts, one for admin activities and one for non admin activities. This is how some admins have already been interacting in the fediverse and basically makes it so comments done on the non-admin account should not be taken as that admin speaking on behalf of the instance. Generally the admin account will be things done relating to admin duties (e.g. my posts here in meta) while the non-admin account is other various conversations. Admins can be as anonymous as they want with the non-admin account similar to how our users here can be as anonymous as they want with their accounts
- im adding in some guidelines for tone while chatting for the admins so comments made that are on behalf of the instance should be respectful and not devolve to slap fights
Adopting an official policy of making admins use alt accounts for "non-admin activities" (which includes posting problematic garbage) doesn't seem to address any of the problems that led to this, other than allowing the instance additional plausible deniability for their admin's behavior. Really doesn't seem very transparent to me.
I'd rather know what the admins of an instance stand for and are all about by their posts, so I can make an informed decision before engaging with any of the comms on their instance.
The two account situation is to solve another issue with the situation which is taking things admins say as speaking on behalf of the instance due to all comments getting marked with the admin or mod flair. If they post things breaking instance rules on there they will still be handled. Im going to be refining the guidebook more with things like intended conduct on all accounts just havent fleshed out the specific sections yet
But yeah last paragraph is fair. Typically what I try to convey with the rules in the site sidebar so people dont have to dig around for stuff and can see what we handle on the instance but yeah not every opinion can be conveyed in instance rules
ok but the transphobia is completely not ok and the actual issue that needs to be handled.
i dont understand why we're federated with hacker news fuckos in the first place, they should stick to the orange site where they belong.
I am surrounded by people like this on a daily basis and would approve of this.
Seriously. I fucking hate interacting with everyone else in my field. They're all so insufferable.
To be fair,
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They're throwing snowe under the bus and openly blame them for it further down. This is a bit of context that I guess is kinda excusing it, although in my opinion your third party program messing up an interaction with someone is a problem that could easily be resolved by realizing you made a mistake and fixing it, which snowe of course didn't do. So maybe they're giving too much credit to a bad admin but I don't think they're really defending the behavior.
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I think the triggered has an unclear antecedent, but I read it as "a branch of the conversation was triggered (as in caused/set off)" not "a user was triggered."
That said, I don't really have strong feelings about programming.dev. They don't seem to show up here much but it's a mixed bag when they do.
hm i guess
i havent seen anyone say those words that way. also got a minor case of bilingual brain so that might be it too. continuing to keep someone on the admin team that did that and still has yet to apologize to the people affected is a dick move, still.regardless, the comments are a cesspool in that thread, grounds enough to defed imo
It would be a weird usage, but people definitely use in a comparable way when talking about video games (event flags and such), so a programmer would be the one to make that stylistic oversight. I can't tell you it's definitely what the admin meant, but it's worth asking.
I read it how you read it and English is my first language. But I do agree I rarely see programming.dev users and when I do, its a mixed bag. I don't have a dog in this race though being from lemmygrad.
The app I use doesn't do display names so I'm also in the same situation with not seeing pronouns. But I have the better sense to use someone's username if I was unsure.
The argument that they're using "triggered in a programming sense" is more reason to defed. What it really is is an appeal to nerd identity politics. These people revolve their identity around some lame nerd subculture, and any conflict with them turns into them thinking "wow these normies just don't understand me, a super special computer toucher!!!!!". It's insufferable whiny BS I have to deal with enough of in real life.
It's also why every "tech" community devolves into nerds whining about culture wars BS instead of actual technical discussion. They're more interested in identifying as a programmer than the actual content of programming.
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Some rules lawyer is gonna say this has to be in the
official defederation nomination threadso I'll go ahead and paste it there.The one rules lawyer on here is still busy trying to get Melina back on the site by arguing that banning non-standard pronoun users is a hate crime. They're tied up for months.
Then they're supposed to help me get re-barred in New Zealand as well as help me sue the mods for censorship reasons.
This sounds suspiciously like fake news outside the fakenews comm
<---me and the huge fucking mess i've caused
