I think its less because of a sheltered upbringing and actually more because of the opposite. Kids are judged constantly and I think it has turned them into nervous wrecks. The fact we live in such a competitive time where messing up even something small is a big deal doesn't help.
i think you hit the nail in the head here. i feel like for millenials and gen z there has been a pervasive 'you're always competing' and needing to excel at everything mindset. that shit doesn't help anyone be the better version of themselves, it just makes them nervous.
if there was less pressure on people everyone would handle shit better and have a healthy self-esteem.
I don't know if it's everyone, but kids where I grew up were taught to get perfect grades in school and never have the slightest flaws or else you're doomed to permanent poverty and everyone will abandon you. I can easily imagine college students being worried about perfection, since the alternative is living in a trash can. Also college students are going to largely represent the more stable, wealthier sections of society. People who perhaps haven't had a lot of criticism and have a lot more to lose.
Also college students are taking out $100k loans and know that slipping up just slightly means becoming an indentured servant.
I just graduated and can definitely back this up. Even though I was generally a good student I was always afraid to read remarks on my essays, less for what it mean for my grade but what it would mean about me. One time I misphrased a confusing title in an essay for a literature class and the professor wrote back that he was glad to see I got it right at least once because I "kept choking on it most of the time". Great, now I feel like a stupid failure even if I got a decent grade on the whole thing
:grillman: "political correctness is when I have to treat my students with basic respect, as their superior, by the edicts of their culture"
"muh self esteem issues" stfu Its hilarious how no matter where you come from, the boomers blame will always blame the mentally ill for being too weak and sensitive lmao
Appreciate that whatever culture you came from still had a sense of common humanity such that you had faith that when people tell you what you've done wrong, they are doing so out of good faith while telling the truth without any ulterior motives.
No you're the one who isn't understanding me jack, you're "respecting" your students according to the edicts of your culture, but not according to the edicts of theirs. Blunt criticism doesn't fulfill the social function you say it does when the society is atomized and hypercompetitive, not because of some stupid "good times make weak men" bullshit.
What instead is happening is a demonstration of precarity in the teaching profession where job security can be threatened by a cultural misunderstanding, not some fucking "emotional incapability of the westerner", thats a rightoid way of thinking. Its fine when we critize westoids for being dumb and racist, but its really fucked when it goes into individualist abhorrence of "weakness" and trivializations of mental illness.
I can see it being cultural differences, but to call it "political correctness" bullshit is misconstruing things. People learn better with encouragement
can you give some more concrete examples?
i feel like i am very bad at taking criticism but at the same time i think that if someone were offering me constructive criticism - especially a professor - i would take it pretty well. maybe even be happy to receive it.
I found out fairly soon that just telling them something like “this is not good enough. you need to put in way more effort than this” is bad enough that some students would feel really bad and interpreted them as “i’m not good enough for this subject, i’m not worthy.”
Well, yeah. When I was in college if a professor had given me that as feedback I would have been annoyed. It tells me nothing on how to improve. It's not constructive or helpful and it's a little condescending. Of course they're putting effort in, they going into like $60,000+ into debt for it.
Those are two completely different responses. It's not just a change in window dressing for culture's sake, you're actually offering resources and reasoning in the second one. The 'simple point' is just barren of the guiding element of education. I don't need to be friends with my professors, but it's helpful to be treated like a human rather than a machine churning out assignments that just needs its "effort" dial turned up
When you have to go to college to get a good job and are pushed into it by your parents don't be surprised when people don't give a shit. They have lives outside of your class.
Like, I expected way more effort than what I have received from them.
yeah, i'm a college student and i'm shocked quite frequently at how little effort some people put in when in group projects or when handing in papers. at the same time, a lot of it is because they have no clue how to do stuff properly and are too afraid to ask. i was never taught how to write academic papers before college so when they were first assigned to me i had to put a decent amount of work in. lots of people handed in pretty bad papers but i don't fault them because if it's your first semester you should probably be given more help and guiding.
but as other comments have pointed out, saying "i want more effort" isn't good advice or criticism. they aren't playing sports, they are doing academic work. you should focus on what they should improve rather than say "do better". so if their writing is bad say that and give them some pointers. if they don't know an important part of their course say that and try to point them to material that discusses that topic.
i know that you probably have a ton of students and it might not be feasible to do this for every single students, but i can assure you that if you do it for some they'd probably be very grateful. this is stuff that only takes a few minutes but means a lot to people.
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I think its less because of a sheltered upbringing and actually more because of the opposite. Kids are judged constantly and I think it has turned them into nervous wrecks. The fact we live in such a competitive time where messing up even something small is a big deal doesn't help.
i think you hit the nail in the head here. i feel like for millenials and gen z there has been a pervasive 'you're always competing' and needing to excel at everything mindset. that shit doesn't help anyone be the better version of themselves, it just makes them nervous.
if there was less pressure on people everyone would handle shit better and have a healthy self-esteem.
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I don't know if it's everyone, but kids where I grew up were taught to get perfect grades in school and never have the slightest flaws or else you're doomed to permanent poverty and everyone will abandon you. I can easily imagine college students being worried about perfection, since the alternative is living in a trash can. Also college students are going to largely represent the more stable, wealthier sections of society. People who perhaps haven't had a lot of criticism and have a lot more to lose.
Also college students are taking out $100k loans and know that slipping up just slightly means becoming an indentured servant.
I just graduated and can definitely back this up. Even though I was generally a good student I was always afraid to read remarks on my essays, less for what it mean for my grade but what it would mean about me. One time I misphrased a confusing title in an essay for a literature class and the professor wrote back that he was glad to see I got it right at least once because I "kept choking on it most of the time". Great, now I feel like a stupid failure even if I got a decent grade on the whole thing
:grillman: "political correctness is when I have to treat my students with basic respect, as their superior, by the edicts of their culture"
"muh self esteem issues" stfu Its hilarious how no matter where you come from, the boomers blame will always blame the mentally ill for being too weak and sensitive lmao
Appreciate that whatever culture you came from still had a sense of common humanity such that you had faith that when people tell you what you've done wrong, they are doing so out of good faith while telling the truth without any ulterior motives.
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No you're the one who isn't understanding me jack, you're "respecting" your students according to the edicts of your culture, but not according to the edicts of theirs. Blunt criticism doesn't fulfill the social function you say it does when the society is atomized and hypercompetitive, not because of some stupid "good times make weak men" bullshit.
What instead is happening is a demonstration of precarity in the teaching profession where job security can be threatened by a cultural misunderstanding, not some fucking "emotional incapability of the westerner", thats a rightoid way of thinking. Its fine when we critize westoids for being dumb and racist, but its really fucked when it goes into individualist abhorrence of "weakness" and trivializations of mental illness.
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:this:
I wonder what could start to change this
I can see it being cultural differences, but to call it "political correctness" bullshit is misconstruing things. People learn better with encouragement
can you give some more concrete examples?
i feel like i am very bad at taking criticism but at the same time i think that if someone were offering me constructive criticism - especially a professor - i would take it pretty well. maybe even be happy to receive it.
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Well, yeah. When I was in college if a professor had given me that as feedback I would have been annoyed. It tells me nothing on how to improve. It's not constructive or helpful and it's a little condescending. Of course they're putting effort in, they going into like $60,000+ into debt for it.
Those are two completely different responses. It's not just a change in window dressing for culture's sake, you're actually offering resources and reasoning in the second one. The 'simple point' is just barren of the guiding element of education. I don't need to be friends with my professors, but it's helpful to be treated like a human rather than a machine churning out assignments that just needs its "effort" dial turned up
When you have to go to college to get a good job and are pushed into it by your parents don't be surprised when people don't give a shit. They have lives outside of your class.
yeah, i'm a college student and i'm shocked quite frequently at how little effort some people put in when in group projects or when handing in papers. at the same time, a lot of it is because they have no clue how to do stuff properly and are too afraid to ask. i was never taught how to write academic papers before college so when they were first assigned to me i had to put a decent amount of work in. lots of people handed in pretty bad papers but i don't fault them because if it's your first semester you should probably be given more help and guiding.
but as other comments have pointed out, saying "i want more effort" isn't good advice or criticism. they aren't playing sports, they are doing academic work. you should focus on what they should improve rather than say "do better". so if their writing is bad say that and give them some pointers. if they don't know an important part of their course say that and try to point them to material that discusses that topic.
i know that you probably have a ton of students and it might not be feasible to do this for every single students, but i can assure you that if you do it for some they'd probably be very grateful. this is stuff that only takes a few minutes but means a lot to people.
You probably shouldn't look toward college kids for good examples of people who are mentally stable tbh
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