I've seen tons of people here that are way too doomer about nukes in general (which I'll admit is not exactly the worst thing someone could be doomer about), but a large-scale nuclear exchange would end civilization as we currently know it if for no other reason than killing 90% of the population and EMPing all current infrastructure is just a tad disruptive.
Humanity (let alone life in general) would survive a nuclear war and civilization would restart, but in the sense that we restart at feudalism and maybe speedrun the last 1000 years of human development except with guns and a knowledge of what penicillin is.
not super sure of that after all the massive explosions would kick up dust blocking the sun right? and the disruption to the ecosystem that would follow from that and the radiation/blasts on top of the disruption of the blasts and any survivors being isolated from each other with no communications infrastructure left.
Nukes are almost exclusively used as airburst weapons for exactly that reason, as you don't yeet much dust into the atmosphere if you detonate a few thousand feet above ground but you do still get the city-flattening blast. Even if you're crazy enough to use a nuke you still probably don't want to block out the sun and poison the soil forever, and if you do you'd just build a cobalt-59 bomb instead which you could detonate in your own backyard for the same effect.
The actual radiation from a nuclear war would only be a major threat for the first few weeks afterwards, after which it would rapidly decay down to something resembling current background levels.
yes extreme radiation is by it's nature not a proble for that long as the intense stuff has short halflives but in that week it could fuck up the environment real bad. Also it's a missile that you've sent off that moves really quickly precision control of the precise moment of detonation is not achievable. Nuclear war is a super bad idea
Frankly prolongued industrial action by truckers could bring america and a lot of other western countries to their knees.
I don't disagree with most of your post, but this:
Also it’s a missile that you’ve sent off that moves really quickly precision control of the precise moment of detonation is not achievable
is objectively wrong. We've had the ability to detonate warheads at extremely precise altitudes/timings for basically as long as we've had nukes; even the ones dropped on Japan were detonated as airbursts. Altimeters are pretty basic pieces of equipment with high precision.
that protest started being about being forced to quarantine for 2 weeks everytime they crossed the border which meant they lost money every trip it just got carried away with stupid culture war crap
a large-scale nuclear exchange would end civilization as we currently know it if for no other reason than killing 90% of the population and EMPing all current infrastructure is just a tad disruptive
I just want to point out that 90% of the world dying sure sounds like doomsday to me. But maybe Posadists have the right idea.
It absolutely is, but for comparison 90% of the indigenous population of the Americas died within 20 years of Columbus setting foot on Hispanola from old world diseases and then the remnants had to deal with centuries of slavery, genocide, and oppression from a population that didn't, and yet there are still plenty of First Nations peoples around today. There's a meaningful difference between apocalypse and Everyone Is Dead Forever.
civilization would restart, but in the sense that we restart at feudalism and maybe speedrun the last 1000 years of human development except with guns and a knowledge of what penicillin is.
haven't we already used most of the major resources on the planet that are easy to extract without mechanization and globalization? stuff like basic electricity and guns might come back, but i don't know if advanced electronics that require using rare earth minerals or heavy industry would. if that were so we might just get stuck at like mid 19th century levels of technology forever afterwards.
There isn't, but I've seen a dozen different people on here in the past two weeks claiming that 100 nukes could permanently sterilize the planet and wrap the Earth in an endless winter haze. It's bad enough without people coming up with even more doomerist takes on it.
People always forget that when shit gets real bad, there's no one around to safely shut down all the nuclear power plants. Even if you survive the initial blast, radiation etc, the power plants are gonna go next.
Nm, my info was old or never right in the first place
Pretty much all modern plants are designed to safely shut down without human intervention. And as shitty as a new potential Chernobyl is, it's a regional disaster.
Then it becomes a slightly larger regional disaster, which fucking sucks for anyone living on the Mississippi but doesn't really matter in the slightest to someone living in New York, or Greece, or Korea. And again, the idea of "what happens if our nuclear power plant doesn't have qualified personnel around 24/7?" is not something that has slipped the minds of the people in charge of those plants which is why they're designed with passive safeguards like control rods defaulting to being inserted into the cores, so it's an unlikely scenario to begin with.
That's good then, cause that's one less thing to worry about. I assume older plants are retrofitted? Like the Bruce plant in ontario isn't "modern" in the sense that it was built any time in the recent past. Brb gotta update my nuclear power plant knowledge apparently lol
I think that was a plot point in the show The 100, with the added feature of having absolutely no comprehension of how radiation or nuclear power plants worked
Yeah, I can't even remember where I first heard it but then it was on fear the walking dead and I must have assumed it was true? Idk i was prolly really high or something and forgot to look it up :michael-laugh: I've looked it up today and even old plants are retrofitted with modern safety devices that shut shit down immediately in the event of anything unusual. So thats good.
I've seen tons of people here that are way too doomer about nukes in general (which I'll admit is not exactly the worst thing someone could be doomer about), but a large-scale nuclear exchange would end civilization as we currently know it if for no other reason than killing 90% of the population and EMPing all current infrastructure is just a tad disruptive.
Humanity (let alone life in general) would survive a nuclear war and civilization would restart, but in the sense that we restart at feudalism and maybe speedrun the last 1000 years of human development except with guns and a knowledge of what penicillin is.
not super sure of that after all the massive explosions would kick up dust blocking the sun right? and the disruption to the ecosystem that would follow from that and the radiation/blasts on top of the disruption of the blasts and any survivors being isolated from each other with no communications infrastructure left.
Seems like something that would be a bad idea
Nukes are almost exclusively used as airburst weapons for exactly that reason, as you don't yeet much dust into the atmosphere if you detonate a few thousand feet above ground but you do still get the city-flattening blast. Even if you're crazy enough to use a nuke you still probably don't want to block out the sun and poison the soil forever, and if you do you'd just build a cobalt-59 bomb instead which you could detonate in your own backyard for the same effect.
The actual radiation from a nuclear war would only be a major threat for the first few weeks afterwards, after which it would rapidly decay down to something resembling current background levels.
yes extreme radiation is by it's nature not a proble for that long as the intense stuff has short halflives but in that week it could fuck up the environment real bad. Also it's a missile that you've sent off that moves really quickly precision control of the precise moment of detonation is not achievable. Nuclear war is a super bad idea
Frankly prolongued industrial action by truckers could bring america and a lot of other western countries to their knees.
I don't disagree with most of your post, but this:
is objectively wrong. We've had the ability to detonate warheads at extremely precise altitudes/timings for basically as long as we've had nukes; even the ones dropped on Japan were detonated as airbursts. Altimeters are pretty basic pieces of equipment with high precision.
And the altimeter is an essential component of any computer rocket guidance system ever made.
Anti-aircraft shells also use one for longer than nuclear weapons and more precise.
Now if only the truckers weren't stupid clowns who protest vaccines and masks
that protest started being about being forced to quarantine for 2 weeks everytime they crossed the border which meant they lost money every trip it just got carried away with stupid culture war crap
I just want to point out that 90% of the world dying sure sounds like doomsday to me. But maybe Posadists have the right idea.
It absolutely is, but for comparison 90% of the indigenous population of the Americas died within 20 years of Columbus setting foot on Hispanola from old world diseases and then the remnants had to deal with centuries of slavery, genocide, and oppression from a population that didn't, and yet there are still plenty of First Nations peoples around today. There's a meaningful difference between apocalypse and Everyone Is Dead Forever.
haven't we already used most of the major resources on the planet that are easy to extract without mechanization and globalization? stuff like basic electricity and guns might come back, but i don't know if advanced electronics that require using rare earth minerals or heavy industry would. if that were so we might just get stuck at like mid 19th century levels of technology forever afterwards.
How in the ever loving fuck is there a non-doomer version of a nuclear war?
There isn't, but I've seen a dozen different people on here in the past two weeks claiming that 100 nukes could permanently sterilize the planet and wrap the Earth in an endless winter haze. It's bad enough without people coming up with even more doomerist takes on it.
That's like massively catastrophic to a degree few of us could survive
People always forget that when shit gets real bad, there's no one around to safely shut down all the nuclear power plants. Even if you survive the initial blast, radiation etc, the power plants are gonna go next.Nm, my info was old or never right in the first place
Pretty much all modern plants are designed to safely shut down without human intervention. And as shitty as a new potential Chernobyl is, it's a regional disaster.
Regional disaster? What if the wastewater gets into a major waterway like the Mississip?
Then it becomes a slightly larger regional disaster, which fucking sucks for anyone living on the Mississippi but doesn't really matter in the slightest to someone living in New York, or Greece, or Korea. And again, the idea of "what happens if our nuclear power plant doesn't have qualified personnel around 24/7?" is not something that has slipped the minds of the people in charge of those plants which is why they're designed with passive safeguards like control rods defaulting to being inserted into the cores, so it's an unlikely scenario to begin with.
Yeah unlike nuclear war, power plants are not an end of civilization/life even if everything goes wrong with them.
That's good then, cause that's one less thing to worry about. I assume older plants are retrofitted? Like the Bruce plant in ontario isn't "modern" in the sense that it was built any time in the recent past. Brb gotta update my nuclear power plant knowledge apparently lol
I think that was a plot point in the show The 100, with the added feature of having absolutely no comprehension of how radiation or nuclear power plants worked
Yeah, I can't even remember where I first heard it but then it was on fear the walking dead and I must have assumed it was true? Idk i was prolly really high or something and forgot to look it up :michael-laugh: I've looked it up today and even old plants are retrofitted with modern safety devices that shut shit down immediately in the event of anything unusual. So thats good.
Actually, come to think of it, this was the most realistic part of Fear the Walking Dead lmaodid you get that from Mr Burns a Post-Electric Play? there's a monologue like that in it