‘Ate NATO
‘Ate Putin
‘Ate Azov
Love the working class
Simple as
Curious, where's this meme come from? I enjoy it but am not familiar.
"norf fc" is the most common name, it's from some imageboard, probably 4chan
" Hate muslims. Hate w*gs Hate removed
NOT racist. Just don't like em.
Simple as."
Putin bad, but America still worse. And Ukraine isn't a hero.
- War is murder
- Russia is bad for entering and escalating the civil war
- Ukraine is bad for refusing to follow the Minsk agreement and being dicks towards Russians
- Nazis are bad. Each and every one of them deserves a bullet between the eyes. Ukraine is fucked up bad for incorporating Nazi terror groups into the armed forces.
- NATO is bad for provoking the war and for shoveling arms into the conflict zone, making everything more violent.
- Zelensky is bad for not surrendering and thereby getting thousands of people killed over dumb shit like joining NATO (who doesn't want the Ukraine as a member) and insisting to rule over the Donbass where people doesn't want to be ruled from Kiev.
- The west is bad and hypocritical for treating white refugees running from a geopolitical adversary much better than other refugees.
- The western sanctions are going to hurt ordinary people in Russia, the west and everywhere else immensely and all over dumb nasty shit like NATO expansion.
- Western liberals who demand that NATO "does something" and want NATO to attack Russian aircraft and air defences are some of the most dangerous and fucked people alive.
- None of this would have happened if the US had been willing to compromise with Russia and limit NATO expansion.
was going to comment on this post but you have everything I was going to say and more here and way more elegantly than I was going to put it
quality comment :fidel-salute: keep it up fam
i just disagree with how you ordered it.
1, 4/5, 8/7/10/6, 9, 3/2, 1
I really don't know :sadness:
I'm frustrated that it's taking everyones attention away from covid, I guess.
That it's NATO's fault and shouldn't have started. It would not have started if NATO had taken anything fucking seriously.
Russia is legitimately defending its security interests, it likely doesn't care that much about DPR/LPR other than the fact that ethnic Russians dying is a bad look politically. What Russia cares about is its security interests and I don't think it would have done fucking any of this if NATO had just taken them seriously and committed to not letting Ukraine in.
Simple as that.
Russia shouldn't be there. It's sad and fucked up. They're doing this because NATO are a threat and refused to compromise.
Ukraine is legitimately full of nazis, a fascist state with a clear majority in government from the Banderite faction.
Civilians dying is fucking horrible. War is shit.
At the utilitarian level, Russia collapsing would result in the end of China in the longterm. It is imperative that does not happen.
Not pro war, not pro russia, but recognise that the end of Russia would fuck communists bigtime. Definitely not pro Ukraine. Definitely pro-workers stuck in the middle of this shit.
War is NATO's fault. NATO must be abolished. War wouldn't be happening otherwise.
Russia collapsing would result in the end of China in the longterm
Why?
Maybe because russia has the resources and political sphere of influence to help solidify a alternative multipolarity with China with belt and road and the Shanghai I forget what its called friend ship union. Idk man im guessing shits just gonna happen we gonna cope
30 Nato bases on China's northern border would do an incredible amount for American destabilisation efforts. China would be fully encircled and other countries along belt and road would be toppled leading to its failure. Russia, like it or not, is currently China's biggest and most important partner for security and resources.
Instead of China connecting up the world over the next few decades the result would look more like what we've seen with Russia, encirclement, isolation and slowly waiting for opportunities to harm it in its isolation while pouring enemies and compradors over the borders.
Russia is a key source of energy and raw materials for China. It's also China's main land neighbor, so a hostile Russia right next door would not be good.
Long answer is if you look more into "Mackinder's World Island theory". It's a about a single block dominating the Eurasian continent being able to overwhelm the naval superiority of major sea nations like the US/UK.
U.S./NATO wanted this war just as much as Putin.
click here to expand zedong
No. they wanted it much more than Putin. Putin actually tried to join NATO in the early 00s. That wasn't the first time Russia tried to join NATO, either, but NATO always said "no" because the whole point of NATO was to encircle and push out socialist states in Europe. Once there were no more socialist states in Europe, the point was to suppress and encircle former socialist states. The leaders before Putin, Gorbachev, and Yeltsin, literally destroyed the USSR, dissolved the warsaw pact, and privatized the Russian economy in exchange for no more NATO expansion. The Russians have compromised time and time again and gotten nothing in return. Gorbachev was promised this. His mistake was trusting the west. NATO kept expanding anyway. Because the fascist sociopathic capitalist west do not keep promises. They capitalize on moments of humility and compromise, which is viewed by their zero sum worldview as "weakness." NATO expanded into Czechia, Poland, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Slovenia, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria since 1999. The former soviet nations have slowly been chipped away by NATO despite popular dissatisfaction with NATO expansion in these countries. Bourgeois capitalist leadership in each of these countries decide on NATO partnerships, joint combat exercises, and submission to US military interoperable organizational structure, all against the wishes of the workers. And all of this is done without any popular consent, because it is considered a matter of "national security." The original purpose of NATO was to combat so-called "soviet aggression" in a time immediately after WW2, when the USSR had lost 25 million people and 1/3 of its industrial capacity, and was in no position to do any kind of expansionism. They were trying to rebuild. The US used the Marshall Plan to inject private capital into the European countries destroyed by WW2. The USA gave Germany way more money to rebuild than they gave the USSR, and the USSR declined to take the money anyway, knowing it would be used to push for privatization of the Soviet Economy. The USA rehabilitated nazis, brought high-ranking nazis like Adolf Heusinger and Hans Spiedel into high-ranking positions in the NATO hierarchy, brought west Germany into NATO, and pivoted West Germany's priorities from denazification to privatization and postwar recovery. All of this very deliberate rehabilitation was called an "economic miracle" even though it was nothing more than the richest country in the world injecting money directly into a defeated fascist power. The United States then brought Turkey into NATO, and stationed missiles in Turkey. The response to this was the creation of the Warsaw pact and the placement of missiles in Cuba. Cuba had its own organic revolution, though, and was not a soviet coup. They simply accepted Soviet help in the face of US aggression (bay of pigs, sanctions against cuban sugar, etc.). That's the difference. The USSR supported organic socialist revolutions, while the USA bankrolled fascist reactionaries inorganically. The USA started the cold war with the implementation of the Truman doctrine and the creation of NATO. And the USA has taken several hostile actions over the past 80 years to encircle, dissolve, coup, privatize, and destroy every god damned socialist project on the face of this planet and people who think history started a month ago imagine Putin (who wouldn't even be in power if it weren't for the USA's actions) somehow wants this war more than the USA? Ukraine was threatening to join NATO, something that the Russians were promised wouldn't happen. And the Ukrainian population prior to this year weren't exactly on board with this either. It took years of US-backed ethnic cleansing to remove the portions of the Ukrainian population resistant to NATO expansion.
Mr. Dankara, tear down this wall [of text]
Good analysis though
Mr. Dankara, tear down this wall [of text]
I have done as you asked
It was bound to happen eventually. The US disregarded the geopolitical consensus, everyone knew Putin, but realy any leader in his position, would see NATO expansion as an eventual justification for war.
Putin isn't a leftist, the Russian people are not thriving under his leadership, the country is not headed towards socialism or anything like that.
However none of that realy matters in the grand scheme of things. For the international socialist movement to have any chance eventualy we must face American imperialism head on. And that means making alliances with countries and leaders that are not aligned with our goals. We offered critical support for middle east countries that fight against US imperialism despite the massive individual flaws of these countries. The same should be applied to Russia in this case. Not doing so is very hypocritical imo.
As far as Russia goes, China already said Russia is a critical partner and their relationship is not going to be affected by any third party interest.
Nevertheless this isn't about morality but about the greater geopolitical situation. China is helping to build a new multipolar world by building relationships with any country that wants to be friendly and prosper together. That block also includes many other AES countries too. You may not be a fan of China, but this isn't just about China but also about Venezuela/DPRK/Cuba too.
I believe it is ultimately in our interest to support that cause, for many reasons but one of them is that we really don't have much time left, we have a couple of decades at most. Everything we do today matters building a world in which AES can stand a chance at defeating US imperialism is crucial, even if it requires troublesome allies, this is literally going to decide the destiny of billions of people.
As a westerner perhaps this isn't particularly interesting to you, maybe you don't care about China or AES(I would question your status of calling yourself a "socialist" at that point) but then again if we can't do anything to help ourselves we should at least try to help others.
Americans should actually do something about their own government. Everything that's happened over the past 70 years were avoidable if Americans had spines or cared about people in other countries.
Whenever they get somewhere they get killed in "gang violence"
Yeah NATO has been assigning different "good boy club" special relationships to Ukraine over the years, none of which mean anything as we can see now. Pure gestures to keep the conflict lukewarm.
It is a war of empire between an authoritarian state and a nazi-sympathizing state. The only positive remotely viable outcome for this would be that the entirety of the international community push both countries towards negotiation and reconciliation.
My only sympathies lie with the Ukrainian people who are being invaded and will be subject to hardship in the coming months, and the Russian people who will have to bear the brunt of the sanctions imposed on Russia while Putin can carry on enjoying his miserable life.
