Posted to their announcement channel, centralization of services and its consequences

  • Omega_Haxors [they/them]
    ·
    edit-2
    3 years ago

    I knew something was up when Discord said "oh btw we're going to take disinformation more seriously now"

    My first thought was "Oh great, so after years of Covid disinformation, they're finally going to - ha ha nope I bet they're suppressing leftists"

    • CyberMao [it/its]
      ·
      3 years ago

      This shit’s coordinated. We’re in the middle of a suppression wave

      • Omega_Haxors [they/them]
        ·
        3 years ago

        They do it on purpose. None of them organize but every single one of them will smell the air to make decisions.

        Once one big tech company starts to ban for something, each and every one of them will jump on board.

        • PorkrollPosadist [he/him, they/them]
          ·
          3 years ago

          None of them organize

          I bet five hexbear gold that if we took a thorough examination of who the key shareholders of these companies are, as well as who sits on their boards, we would find out that it is, in fact, quite organized.

            • TreadOnMe [none/use name]
              ·
              3 years ago

              I can attest that these people probably talk at Silicon Valley 'marketing meetings' where they stand around together and eat cheese and drink wine and talk about politics that they know nothing about. You don't even have to be that far up the chain to participate in that culture and it's circle jerking. I mean, I know some people think we are cloistered and sheltered, but at least we are somewhat self-effacing about it. These people have no such compunctions, true liberal mindset.

          • groundling20XX [none/use name]
            ·
            3 years ago

            Its organized in who gets up to that level. You don’t get there if you don’t agree with the plan and who the enemies are.

              • Philosoraptor [he/him, comrade/them]
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                edit-2
                3 years ago

                Sure. The Ising Model is a model in physics that describes (among other things) the process by which materials acquire a large-scale magnetic moment. It turns out that it actually can describe a lot of other diverse sorts of phenomena--among other things the formation of social consensus, at least under certain conditions. More specifically, it turns out to be a pretty good model of what physicists call phase changes: transitions from one "kind" of state to another. Think of the transition of water from liquid to gas when you heat it, or the transition of an iron rod from being non-magnetized to magnetized when you run another magnet along its surface. Those are phase changes.

                What the Ising model looks like is easiest to grok when it comes to magnets, but for the model to make sense you have to know a little bit about how (fucking) magnets work. Almost every object has a magnetic field. Ordinary objects--that is, objects that we don't tend to think of as "magnets"--just have very weak and disordered magnetic fields. When you (say) put your hand flat on your desk, the force by which the desk "pushes back" on your palm is mediated by the electromagnetic force. What separates that kind of interaction from the sort of interaction in which (for instance) a refrigerator magnet seems to exert a force "at a distance" on a piece of iron is not the presence of a magnetic field, but rather the strength of the field.

                On a quantum mechanical level, magnetic fields are generated by a property called "spin." You can think of this as being roughly analogous to angular momentum in macroscopic objects--think of something like a baseball or billiard ball given "front spin" or "back spin." The "direction" of spin for quantum mechanical objects generates a very small (that is, very weak and short range) magnetic field. In most ordinary objects, all these fields "point" in different directions, because the spins of the particles aren't correlated with each other in any meaningful way--this particle over here is spinning in one direction, while its neighbor is spinning in a different direction, and so on. Because of this lack of correlation between individual particles' spins, the overall magnetic field--what you get when you "add up" all the little tiny magnetic fields of the quantum mechanical particles--isn't very strong. You have to get right up close to feel it. However, when all (or very many) of the spins start pointing in the same direction, the small fields no longer cancel each other out. Instead, they start reinforcing one another creating a stronger and stronger field until it's significant enough to feel when you're holding the magnet a few inches away from your fridge.

                So how do we get from the "random" spin situation to the "coordinated" spin situation? This is where the Ising model comes in. You can picture some object--say, a chunk of iron--as a big grid (or lattice). Each of the particles making up the chunk of iron is represented by one point on the grid. Each of those boxes might have a bunch of interesting properties, but what we care about right now is magnetism, so we'll represent a particle that's spinning "overhand" with an up arrow, and one that's spinning "underhand" with a down arrow. The result will look something like this.. The spins in that picture are distributed more or less at random, so we don't have much of an overall magnetic field. How do we get one? Well, we have to get all of the spins "pointed" in the same direction. There are (at least) two ways that can happen: via the application of an external magnetic field that's so strong it "pulls" all the spins into alignment with it, or spontaneously. The former is what's happening when you magnetize a nail by running another magnet along it; the latter is how natural magnets like lodestones form, and it's the more interesting option for our purposes.

                If you look at the image again, you'll notice that while the ups and downs are distributed at random, you still end up with a few "chunks" of ups and downs right next to each other; this is bound to happen with a random distribution (this is a kind of symmetry breaking , which is another thread you can follow into a wide variety of topics). Now think about what happens if each point on the lattice has a small (but non-zero) effect on its neighbors: if I'm an up arrow and I'm surrounded by a random assortment of ups and downs, I'll just keep being an up arrow. On the other hand, if I'm an up arrow surrounded by a sea of down arrows, I'm going to have a tendency to "flip" and become a down arrow myself, since all those down-arrow neighbors are producing small "downward pointing" magnetic fields of their own. If the coupling between neighbors is strong enough, this can result in all the arrows in the whole lattice influencing each other to point in the same direction, which will cause the object to spontaneously magnetize itself without the need for an external magnetic field. It can also mean that the exact shape of the initial random distribution--where the random collections of ups and downs start out--can strongly influence how the final situation shakes out; if there just happen to be a few more clusters of ups, then you might end up with no down arrows at all, and vise versa. Most importantly for our purposes, you get the appearance of coordinated, goal-directed behavior without any central authority at all. The orderliness of the phase transition just "falls out" of the dynamics of the system combined with its initial state.

                It turns out that this is a super flexible model in general. Any kind of system with elements that have limited range interactions with other nearby elements and influence those neighbors to become correlated with themselves can be modeled as an Ising-type system. Superconductivity works like this. Bird flocking works like this. Lots of social interactions work like this. Your views about politics don't have an influence over the views of everyone everywhere, but they do have an influence over your "social neighbors"--that is, the people you interact with on a regular basis. If you're hanging out with a bunch of people who are more radical than you are, you're going to have a tendency to radicalize as well. This helps us model how things like the alt-right emerge, and what role social media might play in those sorts of "consensus shifting" social events.

                In the case the OP was talking about above, the sudden banning of leftwing spaces looks like a coordinated action, and it is in some sense--just not one that requires any central authority or directive. Instead, all of the big social media companies look at what their neighbors are doing, and adjust their behavior to be slightly more like the average of what they see. That sort of dynamic is very conducive to sudden phase changes: situations in which a small ripple quickly amplifies itself into a tidal wave of difference, and the flock of birds suddenly turns without any one bird making the decision to shift directions.

                • riley
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  deleted by creator

                  • Philosoraptor [he/him, comrade/them]
                    ·
                    3 years ago

                    Yeah, I'm fudging just a little bit. Part of how the symmetry gets broken is that the Earth itself (obviously) has a magnetic field, so spins that "line up" with that external field are slightly more likely. It's not enough to magnetize most materials directly, but it's enough to start the phase change happening.

                    • riley
                      ·
                      edit-2
                      1 year ago

                      deleted by creator

        • zifnab25 [he/him, any]
          ·
          3 years ago

          None of them organize

          There are people working full time to monitor, harass, and dismantle these communities.

          Discord Corporate simply has a liaison who knows the score and responds to take-down notices aggressively when they come from the "right" kind of informant.

      • FreakingSpy [he/him]
        ·
        3 years ago

        I'm in a discord server with lots of russian users discussing the Ukraine war and it was threatened with a ban, too

    • Owl [he/him]
      ·
      3 years ago

      I read through their announcement blog post and it was 100% about Covid disinformation. No mention of any other kind.

      So I'm a little surprised. I thought they'd wait a week or two before extending it to suppressing leftist spaces.

      • Omega_Haxors [they/them]
        ·
        edit-2
        3 years ago

        Yeah I don't buy it. The time to ban covid disinformation was during the height of the pandemic, not weeks "after" it, and conveniently right before banning discords for "Russian propaganda"

        What they're doing is plausibility deniability. They're using it as a cover for their censorship.

        • Spike [none/use name]
          ·
          3 years ago

          This is banning covid disinformation from the lib point of view. Currently the status quo is that covid is not that bad and that if you are vaccinated you should be allowed to do whatever they want. GenZedong would be supporting China's point of view where they are still treating Covid like a dangerous virus and advocate for lockdowns and mask mandates. Therefore, libs will ban China for covid disinformation.

  • Leon_Grotsky [comrade/them]
    ·
    edit-2
    3 years ago

    Very cool that the pedo groomer messaging app is taking a principled stance on misinformation

    E) I am going to report all of the game mod channels for misinformation when their releases are a day later than anticipated

  • PorkrollPosadist [he/him, they/them]
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    edit-2
    3 years ago

    I am once again asking political dissidents to stop using communications tools marketed towards children.

    I am once again asking political dissidents to stop using communications tools which lack a spell check feature on Linux.

    I am once again asking political dissidents to stop using communications tools which transfer all messages through a central server in cleartext so the owners can read through their conversations and take issue with the "misinformation" they're sharing.

    I am once again asking political dissidents to stop using communications tools which include privilege escalating code for screen recording and keyboard event interception straight out of the box.

    I am once again asking political dissidents to stop placing their trust in "minumum viable products" designed by Silicon Valley techbros who read "The Lean Startup" and "The 4-Hour Workweek"

  • WhyEssEff [she/her]
    hexagon
    ·
    3 years ago

    unlike reddit this absolutely has zero justification because you don’t exactly have free and open interplay between openly accessible servers, lmfaoooo. Reddit could pull a whole “brigading” piece out of their ass but discord? Blatantly fucking obvious it’s just “bad politic” to literally anyone and everyone

  • mrbigcheese [he/him]
    ·
    edit-2
    3 years ago

    lol i got banned from genzedong for telling ppl to join hexbear

    E: sorry was thinking of r/informedtankie actually

      • mrbigcheese [he/him]
        ·
        3 years ago

        wait maybe im thinking of r/informedtankie actually, but someone posted some thing about why ppl shouldnt join this site that linked to a genzedong post about ppl not being sectarian enough on here basically

        • PorkrollPosadist [he/him, they/them]
          ·
          edit-2
          3 years ago

          The "left unity" well is so thoroughly poisoned on Reddit that you could dilute it with arsenic. Any community which can bring anticapitalists together under a common cause is subjected to wreckers, sectarian purges, admin coups, or outright bans. Places like r/ShitLiberalsSay are very rare. And for every good place that gets destroyed, we get five more iterations of r/StupidPol.

          • CyberMao [it/its]
            ·
            3 years ago

            It’s worth reflecting on how valuable these spaces are

            • PorkrollPosadist [he/him, they/them]
              ·
              3 years ago

              It is just a higher volume c/the_dunk_tank, but the longer threads can contain some good sidebar discussions. It doesn't have much of a political program, so it isn't much of a threat, but it is one of the few places on Reddit where cross-pollination between radical tendencies takes place and liberal concern-mongers are swiftly shoved into lockers.

          • mrbigcheese [he/him]
            ·
            3 years ago

            I just got banned from r/socialisteurope today for "posting in genzedong" i think i might have posted like 2 comments in that sub in the past month lol

              • Xenomork [they/them]
                ·
                3 years ago

                Adding Bleach Demons to my "white slurs" list, removing Mayo Blood from the top spot.

                • Alaskaball [comrade/them]A
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  3 years ago

                  I like calling them "cum-skins", mayonnaise(emphasis on "naise") face, Wonderbread-boys, and my personal favorite - a close cousin to Bleach Demons - Semen Demons :panting:

                  • Xenomork [they/them]
                    ·
                    3 years ago

                    Colonizer is a good one, but most don't really get it....probably because they think its a compliment :agony-shivering:

                    • Alaskaball [comrade/them]A
                      ·
                      3 years ago

                      yeah you're most likely gonna get a :jesse-wtf: out of your average person, and honestly (my opinion here) kinda cringe if you use it unironically when you yourself - the person using the word - are also a colonizer. I'm more comfortable leaving those kinds of words for the native americans.

            • D61 [any]
              ·
              3 years ago

              I've gottan bans from some breadtuber channels that I skim through but almost never interact with and r/communism for the same.

          • ssjmarx [he/him]
            ·
            3 years ago

            Try to call for left unity in a post or comment and half the subs call you a fascist, the other half call you a radlib.

            • Nakoichi [they/them]
              ·
              3 years ago

              Most people are libs, apolitical, or have totally incoherent politics sectarianism just shuts the door on a lot of people that may be willing to learn.

          • Praksis [any]
            ·
            3 years ago

            lmao I swear genzedong itself doesn't allow ''non-scientific leftists'' which includes leftcoms, anarchists and MLMs

        • notthenameiwant [he/him]
          ·
          3 years ago

          They did do that hostile takeover of /r/genzanarchism awhile back. Maybe we should be a bit cautious about welcoming all of them here.

          • BolsheWitch [she/her, they/them]
            ·
            edit-2
            3 years ago

            They did do that hostile takeover of /r/genzanarchism awhile back. Maybe we should be a bit cautious about welcoming all of them here.

            That was one mod who has since said they regretted it and were being a shithead. I think they were a teenager at the time lol

            still cringe, but I get how it could happen :vivian-shrug:

    • JamesGoblin [he/him]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Strange, I told people to join hexbear in MULTIPLE posts there, giving links etc - OFC no consequences and heavily upvoted each time!?

    • Mardoniush [she/her]
      ·
      edit-2
      3 years ago

      It is, though GenZ has some uhh....interesting takes that sometimes border on SWERF stuff.

      EDIT: GenZedong...not zoomers in general.

      • ZZ_SloppyTop [he/him]
        ·
        edit-2
        3 years ago

        Rather be labeled a SWERF than be an enabler of sexual exploitation and sexual commodification. The target of communists against sex work are not the individual sex workers, they are the johns and pimps and brothels, and the conditions that force impoverished people (mostly women) into these lifestyles.

        Like would people here be calling Lenin a SWERF for shutting down the prostitution industry? Someone can be a completely principled communist and want to abolish industries of sexual exploitation and commodification

          • Foolio [any]
            ·
            3 years ago

            Sex work, at least stuff that involves actual contact and not webcaming or OF, is arguably inherently dangerous for the sex workers because there's always customers who feel entitled "because they paid". Imagine what retail workers deal with, but it's incel men who think they're gonna get their obsession fulfilled.

        • modsarefascist [he/him]
          ·
          3 years ago

          The only way to do that ideologically right would be to simply improve the lives of people so that they had no desire to take sex work (unless if they really want to, which at least for porn some do). By simply banning it you're just cutting those impoverished off from a way to get resources/money.

          • ZZ_SloppyTop [he/him]
            ·
            3 years ago

            It requires both an improvement in conditions for everyone, and a simultaneous crackdown on pimps, johns, traffickers and brothels. Just like making weed legal didn’t abruptly destroy cartels, organized crime rings and prostitution industry won’t just go away. You have to break it

      • SerLava [he/him]
        ·
        3 years ago

        let's not shorten it to almost the same thing as zoomers

        • replaceable [he/him]M
          ·
          3 years ago

          We have to wait until the devs implement federation, and there is only like 2 people working on that so it will probably take a while

      • Koa_lala [he/him]
        ·
        3 years ago

        I hope we don't get their shit site design as well.

  • LeninWeave [none/use name]
    ·
    edit-2
    3 years ago

    Muh great firewall no free speech scheming chinese tankie CCP. Aren't you glad you're in the land of the free?

    • asaharyev [he/him]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Gonna be weird seeing the contrarian poisoning at a level that people are defending Putin...

      • TankieTanuki [he/him]
        ·
        3 years ago

        I welcome the discussion. Better than a bunch of brain dead libs shouting "Putler bad" and "whataboutism" IMO.

        • Nakoichi [they/them]
          ·
          3 years ago

          Yeah there's at least a common framework with them and a chance to resolve some conflicts in good faith.

      • Nakoichi [they/them]
        ·
        edit-2
        3 years ago

        Something something Thesis Antithesis

        (yeah there might be some struggle sessions but it could also be productive)

      • zifnab25 [he/him, any]
        ·
        3 years ago

        The only "defending Putin" I've seen in Left social media that's not explicitly contrarian is "Putin was backed into a corner and NATO forced his hand".

        I've yet to see anyone seriously suggest this war in Ukraine is somehow a good thing. And I'd be surprised if that sentiment was tolerated in /r/GenZeDong, much less dominant.

  • TankieTanuki [he/him]
    ·
    3 years ago

    If this happened in [bad country] the NED would put them on 60 minutes.

  • Koa_lala [he/him]
    ·
    3 years ago

    Literal pedo rings on discord, they sleep. Something that's not liberal = real shit

    • OfficialBenGarrison [he/him]
      ·
      3 years ago

      They're also fine with nazis.

      "Left media bias" is one of the biggest lies. Everything is biased in favor of fascists except for facts.

  • TankieTanuki [he/him]
    ·
    3 years ago

    Hexbear: "We need to restart the pipeline to leftism."

    Also Hexbear: "GenZ has a slightly different culture so I don't know if we should invite them here."

    • Quimby [any, any]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Hexbear: everyone is too online

      Also hexbear: online infighting with 15 year old shitposters

    • PorkrollPosadist [he/him, they/them]
      ·
      3 years ago

      It seems they would prefer to move to Lemmygrad, which is fine. It's run by comrades, and it's based on the same tech which powers Hexbear. We can facilitate that.

  • Frank [he/him, he/him]
    ·
    3 years ago

    Something something :freeze-peach:

    The aggressiveness of this media driven censorship campaign is kind of frightening.