They're social control because people without them are further denied access to other things and looked down upon for not having them.
If you have a fucking shower and you don't use it you're just lazy and stinky. The homeless don't choose to be lazy and stinky and don't deserve to be degraded for it, you on the other hand absolutely do. Be considerate to others. WASH.
The fact that major cities can't get their shit together to build public restrooms is a massive societal failure. There is absolutely no excuse what so ever.
Public restrooms should be like Roman bathhouses to be quite honest. And as commonplace. With modern concepts of privacy of course, but available and common.
"Modern concepts of privacy" weird me out. I'm old enough to have grown up with open locker rooms full of naked old men who dngaf. It's only been about thirty years since those days, but the change happened extremely fast. I can see a lot of arguments against them, but it's still such a rapid social change.
Still some places in the "modern world" where its still perfectly normal to be nude around strangers (but usually of the same gender). Japanese onsens are a good example, and I understand that Finnish saunas follow a very similar protocol.
If you put the two side by side what would people choose? I wager the private ones mostly.
If you put a swimming pool at the same facility you can have a good argument for both because sports teams or school classes may prefer to use group changing for various reasons.
If you have a fucking shower and you don’t use it you’re just lazy and stinky.
Or seriously disabled. Before I became effectively bed-bound because my spine is literally satan, I showered religiously. Now, managing to take a shower is committing to fifteen minutes of agony. I do it when I can, but there absolutely is such a thing as being too disabled to shower regularly. Some of those disabilities can be accommodated for. Others legitimately can't (If someone wants to invent and install a shower-bed for me, I won't complain, tho). Most of them also generally preclude spending much time in public, though, which I suppose is a counterpoint.
Yeah my spine is also satan, and unfortunately that does lead to bad hygiene sometimes on days that I don't need to leave the house.
But I make sure to shower if someone is coming over or if I'm going out in public, if I'm not well enough to shower I'm definitely not well enough to go out in public or hang out with friends.
I hate this comment a lot. The person you have imagined who has a regular situation and is totally fine but just doesn't care to wash and smells awful because they are just a dumb slob, they might very well be real, maybe they will see it. Idk I have never encountered that, I have encountered many many people however who are mentally ill or neurodivergent (also physically disabled as someone else said) and have trouble with it. That is who you are really talking about, that is who you are really calling lazy and stinky, saying are worthy of degrading
Nah there are plenty of lazy people. A lot of people here could attest to having had at least one roommate at some point or another who is simply inconsiderate. The tweeter in question is just that.
I think I made the point just fine. It's about means. If you have the means to wash and you do not then you are the problem. If you do not have the means due to ability or other reasons then it is completely understandable. People that do have the means and do not wash are disrespecting everyone that would like to but can not, and making life less pleasant simply because they are lazy.
please read the comment you responded to. What looks like 'just laziness' from an outside observer can be a manifestation of terminal depression, anxiety, and other conditions.
Yeah, but it doesn't represent the point I'm making. It's only relevant in that it's someone pretending to have an argument that sounds like what I'm talking about. Please don't do this.
If I will accept that this specific overly-online anime-pfp anarchist is not at all mentally ill for an absolute fact, and is as you assume personally very smelly and lazy, will you accept that other than in this case it is often difficult to judge what means a person has or what personal issues someone has from just a whiff? Although there is no common ground here for us really. I am unmoveable really because I think being so lazy you do not wash is itself a state of mental unwellness significant enough to invite compassion rather than hatred.
One of the reasons this bugs me so much is that when some people do it it really does come off as like. Nazi shit. Hygiene - not only racial hygiene, but physical cleanliness, was fundamental to the Nazi program of dehumanization. To this day I dare you go into any neonazi space online and count how long it takes you to get to someone using smell to be racist. Not you though, "These lazy assholes are ruining it for the rest of us with their BO, and disrespecting people with actual problems!" is not nazi shit, you just sounds like a bog standard middle aged conservative uncle
will you accept that other than in this case it is often difficult to judge what means a person has or what personal issues someone has from just a whiff?
I accept that.
I am unmoveable really because I think being so lazy you do not wash is itself a state of mental unwellness significant enough to invite compassion rather than hatred.
I won't accept laziness as a state of mental unwellness and even if I were to I would still end up saying that communists should not promote that position because it plays directly into the hands of those that claim socialists are just lazy and do not want to work.
This entire issue basically killed /r/antiwork's momentum. It is not a road communists should go down.
I think you may be right about it being a loser for communism, and to a lesser extent anarchism, as like. Online brands, which is you are correct to point out, the game here. And yeah I don't think I would ever raise this one at a meeting, aside from it being contentious its also not really actionable. But because it is my profession and since I don't watch much youtube any more I am much more of a disability advocate than I am a communist I guess
It is actionable in the same way invisible disability is actionable, the same way we work against ableism. But I wouldn't because it would distance the left very hard from workers who would see it as defending laziness and that goes down like a lead balloon with most people.
I do think we should push against the ostracisation of unclean people without the means to be clean or other mitigating factors though, primarily homelessness. However if teenage "anarchists" start spreading this shit with any frequency on twitter then it'll end up harming that as bringing it up at all will create the emotional connections in people which is the opposite of what we want.
The tweeter is similar to the children who keep calling bedtimes authoritarianism and opposing other general parenting things as "hierarchy". There are some people with incredibly bad takes.
Showers are social control but not in this way.
They're social control because people without them are further denied access to other things and looked down upon for not having them.
If you have a fucking shower and you don't use it you're just lazy and stinky. The homeless don't choose to be lazy and stinky and don't deserve to be degraded for it, you on the other hand absolutely do. Be considerate to others. WASH.
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The fact that major cities can't get their shit together to build public restrooms is a massive societal failure. There is absolutely no excuse what so ever.
Public restrooms should be like Roman bathhouses to be quite honest. And as commonplace. With modern concepts of privacy of course, but available and common.
They could be made really nice.
Basically a publicly owned gym.
"Modern concepts of privacy" weird me out. I'm old enough to have grown up with open locker rooms full of naked old men who dngaf. It's only been about thirty years since those days, but the change happened extremely fast. I can see a lot of arguments against them, but it's still such a rapid social change.
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Still some places in the "modern world" where its still perfectly normal to be nude around strangers (but usually of the same gender). Japanese onsens are a good example, and I understand that Finnish saunas follow a very similar protocol.
If you put the two side by side what would people choose? I wager the private ones mostly.
If you put a swimming pool at the same facility you can have a good argument for both because sports teams or school classes may prefer to use group changing for various reasons.
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It's a policy choice, and they justify it with scare tactics surrounding drug use.
Then they ensure that their scariness is true by heavily criminalizing drug use and forcing it into secret.
Or seriously disabled. Before I became effectively bed-bound because my spine is literally satan, I showered religiously. Now, managing to take a shower is committing to fifteen minutes of agony. I do it when I can, but there absolutely is such a thing as being too disabled to shower regularly. Some of those disabilities can be accommodated for. Others legitimately can't (If someone wants to invent and install a shower-bed for me, I won't complain, tho). Most of them also generally preclude spending much time in public, though, which I suppose is a counterpoint.
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Yeah my spine is also satan, and unfortunately that does lead to bad hygiene sometimes on days that I don't need to leave the house.
But I make sure to shower if someone is coming over or if I'm going out in public, if I'm not well enough to shower I'm definitely not well enough to go out in public or hang out with friends.
Weird, I thought I replied to this already, I upvoted it.
Completely agree, you aren't the problem. Those that can but do not are.
I hate this comment a lot. The person you have imagined who has a regular situation and is totally fine but just doesn't care to wash and smells awful because they are just a dumb slob, they might very well be real, maybe they will see it. Idk I have never encountered that, I have encountered many many people however who are mentally ill or neurodivergent (also physically disabled as someone else said) and have trouble with it. That is who you are really talking about, that is who you are really calling lazy and stinky, saying are worthy of degrading
Nah there are plenty of lazy people. A lot of people here could attest to having had at least one roommate at some point or another who is simply inconsiderate. The tweeter in question is just that.
I think I made the point just fine. It's about means. If you have the means to wash and you do not then you are the problem. If you do not have the means due to ability or other reasons then it is completely understandable. People that do have the means and do not wash are disrespecting everyone that would like to but can not, and making life less pleasant simply because they are lazy.
please read the comment you responded to. What looks like 'just laziness' from an outside observer can be a manifestation of terminal depression, anxiety, and other conditions.
Not in people tweeting about this shit it's not.
I'm sorry but the tweet is almost entirely unrelated. I'm not sure what you're getting at.
It is literally the entire basis from which this thread stems from
Yeah, but it doesn't represent the point I'm making. It's only relevant in that it's someone pretending to have an argument that sounds like what I'm talking about. Please don't do this.
If I will accept that this specific overly-online anime-pfp anarchist is not at all mentally ill for an absolute fact, and is as you assume personally very smelly and lazy, will you accept that other than in this case it is often difficult to judge what means a person has or what personal issues someone has from just a whiff? Although there is no common ground here for us really. I am unmoveable really because I think being so lazy you do not wash is itself a state of mental unwellness significant enough to invite compassion rather than hatred.
One of the reasons this bugs me so much is that when some people do it it really does come off as like. Nazi shit. Hygiene - not only racial hygiene, but physical cleanliness, was fundamental to the Nazi program of dehumanization. To this day I dare you go into any neonazi space online and count how long it takes you to get to someone using smell to be racist. Not you though, "These lazy assholes are ruining it for the rest of us with their BO, and disrespecting people with actual problems!" is not nazi shit, you just sounds like a bog standard middle aged conservative uncle
I accept that.
I won't accept laziness as a state of mental unwellness and even if I were to I would still end up saying that communists should not promote that position because it plays directly into the hands of those that claim socialists are just lazy and do not want to work.
This entire issue basically killed /r/antiwork's momentum. It is not a road communists should go down.
I think you may be right about it being a loser for communism, and to a lesser extent anarchism, as like. Online brands, which is you are correct to point out, the game here. And yeah I don't think I would ever raise this one at a meeting, aside from it being contentious its also not really actionable. But because it is my profession and since I don't watch much youtube any more I am much more of a disability advocate than I am a communist I guess
It is actionable in the same way invisible disability is actionable, the same way we work against ableism. But I wouldn't because it would distance the left very hard from workers who would see it as defending laziness and that goes down like a lead balloon with most people.
I do think we should push against the ostracisation of unclean people without the means to be clean or other mitigating factors though, primarily homelessness. However if teenage "anarchists" start spreading this shit with any frequency on twitter then it'll end up harming that as bringing it up at all will create the emotional connections in people which is the opposite of what we want.
The tweeter is similar to the children who keep calling bedtimes authoritarianism and opposing other general parenting things as "hierarchy". There are some people with incredibly bad takes.
Awoo, you're still the best and most correct hexbear poster :fidel-salute: