Fight Club is an AIDS crisis allegory, influenced by Chuck Palanhuik's experience as a gay man at the height of the crisis. The fight club itself is a metaphor for anonymous gay sex: you construct intricate rituals to touch the skin of other men, you do this to feel alive and whole because you do not fit in with society, and you do this even though it is dangerous; during the daytime you recognize other people who are like you but society doesn't notice and wouldn't approve, even as your participation begins to show on your skin society pretends not to notice still. There's a lot more pieces there, but hopefully those dots are easier to connect once you realize that it is.
There's a lot of toxic masculinity associated with it, but I think that mostly comes from the (cishet) bro dudes that are its stereotypical fans — calling the work itself toxic masculinity misses the point IMO
It was really eye-opening to me when I heard that interpretation of the novel/film, but it feels so obvious after learning that lol
Edit: I'm glad this was my 10000th post, that feels right for me I feel good about that lmao
I've never seen this interpretation. I thought Chuck said it was him as a gay man commenting on the toxic masculinity (not the term used since this was a long time ago) of straight men. Basically "Are the straights alright?: The Book".
I think that's true as well — the synthesis is that the self-destructive nature of toxic masculinity is used as a metaphor for being gay at the height of the AIDS crisis (causing cishet men to overwhelmingly stan extremely queer art, which is cool)
The biggest problem with the Fight Club movie is that it cast hot, cool, charismatic people like Edward Norton, Helena Bonham Carter, and Brad Pitt in the primary roles. Instead of seeming grotesque and weird and unhealthy (which the book definitely sells) they made it look cool in an anti-culture heroin chic way. If they cast Steve Buscemi, Willem Dafoe, and Tilda Swinton (just pulling "weird" actors out of my ass) the movie would have read very differently.
(I don't want to imply that Steve isn't cool and charismatic, he's just not Hollywood Handsome the way Pitt and Norton are).
If the fight club is a metaphor for gay sex, then what is project mayhem? And why are there hundreds of references in the movie to being emasculated or feminized if the movie is not about toxic masculinity?
spoiler
Why do the men of the fight club form a fascist militia to overthrow society if the fight club is a metaphor for gay sex?
Following Eve Sedgwick's classic queer theory essay, "The Beast in the Closet," the more that any hint of homosexual desire or eroticism is attempted to be eliminated, the gayer it, in fact, becomes
Overthrowing a society that don't care about you and actively wishes you dead is an understandable position, and probably one that a lot of queer people had during the AIDS crisis in particular
I don't really buy that. So much of the movie is just purely misogynistic. Project Mayhem is a rebellion against what they perceive to be a society controlled by women. The goal of project mayhem is to reinforce the patriarchy. To associate hating women with being a gay man comes off as homophobic.
spoiler
The narrator says that home decoration is a trait of women. That women should be homemakers.
Tyler says that men shouldn't know what a duvet is because woman should be homemakers.
Narrator says "Bob has b*tch tits". The martyr of the movie is a man who the narrator perceive as being forced feminized. Bob had his testicles removed because of cancer and grew woman-like breasts because of an estrogen hormonal imbalance.
The narrator hates Marla for being a woman. He calls Marla a "faker" and says she wants to steal what he has from him.
The narrator/Tyler explicitly state that the problem with society is that it is run by women.
The narrator/Tyler blame their shortcomings in life on being raised by single mothers, not having a father figure. They say that it made them woman-like. The reactionary trope of "fatherlessness" being the failure of society.
The narrator explicitly tells Marla that fight club is a support group for men. Marla sees the narrator on the street and asks why he hasn't been going to support groups any more. The narrator tells Marla that he is still attending a support group, but that it's for men only, referring to fight club. Fight club is a support group for men who are forced to be feminine by society.
The paper street soap company created by project mayhem is described as "selling women's fat asses back to them". The soap is made out of liposuction fat and sold to women at high prices. Tyler is described to be brilliant because he takes advantage of women who want fancy soap.
Women are not allowed to join project mayhem.
If someone disobeys project mayhem, project mayhem will cut their testicles off. There are dozens of references in the movie to having testicles cut off. In the ideology of project mayhem, not having testicles makes someone "not a man". Project mayhem seeks to make anyone who disobeys the militia into not men. Why would gay men be so obsessed with cutting of testicles?
Homosexual men don't hate women, they just don't want to have sex with women.
The thing about allegory is that it isn't 1:1, and using the fight club and project mayhem as an allegory for gay men during the height of the aids crisis does not mean that gay men disproportionately engage in toxic masculinity or in misogyny any more than it means that gay men routinely gather in parking lots to beat each other up for fun. Trying to conflate the plot of the story with its allegorical meaning will lead you to draw incorrect conclusions like this - that would be like reading "the ant and the grasshopper" and your takeaway being that if you don't work hard and prepare for the future, you'll be scoffed at by a literal ant.
Narratively, the exclusion of women from fight club allegorically aligns with the disproportionate effect of AIDS on men, particularly within the queer community. (That isn't to say that women don't get AIDS and that queer women don't get AIDS, but the impact of the virus was very different.)
I'd also like to reiterate that the author of the novel is a gay man who lived through that time period.
I also strongly disagree with your characterization of a queer interpretation of fight club as being homophobic in any way. The point of the story in this interpretation isnt "gay men are toxic and hate women" it's "gay men were treated horribly by society, abandoned and left to die, and some subset of gay men engaged in self-destructive behaviors to cope with this." The narrator is never cast as being in the wrong for doing what he does, it's presented as a logical response to his material conditions — if the moral was "gay men are toxic and hate women" the whole story would be focused on all the ways that the narrator was wrong, and would end with him getting punished. Instead, the movie adaption ends with him blowing up the banks and the records of everyone's debt along with it.
Fight Club is an AIDS crisis allegory, influenced by Chuck Palanhuik's experience as a gay man at the height of the crisis. The fight club itself is a metaphor for anonymous gay sex: you construct intricate rituals to touch the skin of other men, you do this to feel alive and whole because you do not fit in with society, and you do this even though it is dangerous; during the daytime you recognize other people who are like you but society doesn't notice and wouldn't approve, even as your participation begins to show on your skin society pretends not to notice still. There's a lot more pieces there, but hopefully those dots are easier to connect once you realize that it is.
There's a lot of toxic masculinity associated with it, but I think that mostly comes from the (cishet) bro dudes that are its stereotypical fans — calling the work itself toxic masculinity misses the point IMO
It was really eye-opening to me when I heard that interpretation of the novel/film, but it feels so obvious after learning that lol
Edit: I'm glad this was my 10000th post, that feels right for me I feel good about that lmao
I've never seen this interpretation. I thought Chuck said it was him as a gay man commenting on the toxic masculinity (not the term used since this was a long time ago) of straight men. Basically "Are the straights alright?: The Book".
I think that's true as well — the synthesis is that the self-destructive nature of toxic masculinity is used as a metaphor for being gay at the height of the AIDS crisis (causing cishet men to overwhelmingly stan extremely queer art, which is cool)
deleted by creator
The biggest problem with the Fight Club movie is that it cast hot, cool, charismatic people like Edward Norton, Helena Bonham Carter, and Brad Pitt in the primary roles. Instead of seeming grotesque and weird and unhealthy (which the book definitely sells) they made it look cool in an anti-culture heroin chic way. If they cast Steve Buscemi, Willem Dafoe, and Tilda Swinton (just pulling "weird" actors out of my ass) the movie would have read very differently.
(I don't want to imply that Steve isn't cool and charismatic, he's just not Hollywood Handsome the way Pitt and Norton are).
deleted by creator
Neo-nazis seem to really enjoy American History X. I guess they turn it off when Edward Norton turns lib.
deleted by creator
Oh yeah that's a very good point — definitely seems to be an intentional choice on Palanhuik's part
If the fight club is a metaphor for gay sex, then what is project mayhem? And why are there hundreds of references in the movie to being emasculated or feminized if the movie is not about toxic masculinity?
spoiler
Why do the men of the fight club form a fascist militia to overthrow society if the fight club is a metaphor for gay sex?
Following Eve Sedgwick's classic queer theory essay, "The Beast in the Closet," the more that any hint of homosexual desire or eroticism is attempted to be eliminated, the gayer it, in fact, becomes
Overthrowing a society that don't care about you and actively wishes you dead is an understandable position, and probably one that a lot of queer people had during the AIDS crisis in particular
I don't really buy that. So much of the movie is just purely misogynistic. Project Mayhem is a rebellion against what they perceive to be a society controlled by women. The goal of project mayhem is to reinforce the patriarchy. To associate hating women with being a gay man comes off as homophobic.
spoiler
The narrator says that home decoration is a trait of women. That women should be homemakers.
Tyler says that men shouldn't know what a duvet is because woman should be homemakers.
Narrator says "Bob has b*tch tits". The martyr of the movie is a man who the narrator perceive as being forced feminized. Bob had his testicles removed because of cancer and grew woman-like breasts because of an estrogen hormonal imbalance.
The narrator hates Marla for being a woman. He calls Marla a "faker" and says she wants to steal what he has from him.
The narrator/Tyler explicitly state that the problem with society is that it is run by women.
The narrator/Tyler blame their shortcomings in life on being raised by single mothers, not having a father figure. They say that it made them woman-like. The reactionary trope of "fatherlessness" being the failure of society.
The narrator explicitly tells Marla that fight club is a support group for men. Marla sees the narrator on the street and asks why he hasn't been going to support groups any more. The narrator tells Marla that he is still attending a support group, but that it's for men only, referring to fight club. Fight club is a support group for men who are forced to be feminine by society.
The paper street soap company created by project mayhem is described as "selling women's fat asses back to them". The soap is made out of liposuction fat and sold to women at high prices. Tyler is described to be brilliant because he takes advantage of women who want fancy soap.
Women are not allowed to join project mayhem.
If someone disobeys project mayhem, project mayhem will cut their testicles off. There are dozens of references in the movie to having testicles cut off. In the ideology of project mayhem, not having testicles makes someone "not a man". Project mayhem seeks to make anyone who disobeys the militia into not men. Why would gay men be so obsessed with cutting of testicles?
Homosexual men don't hate women, they just don't want to have sex with women.
The thing about allegory is that it isn't 1:1, and using the fight club and project mayhem as an allegory for gay men during the height of the aids crisis does not mean that gay men disproportionately engage in toxic masculinity or in misogyny any more than it means that gay men routinely gather in parking lots to beat each other up for fun. Trying to conflate the plot of the story with its allegorical meaning will lead you to draw incorrect conclusions like this - that would be like reading "the ant and the grasshopper" and your takeaway being that if you don't work hard and prepare for the future, you'll be scoffed at by a literal ant.
Narratively, the exclusion of women from fight club allegorically aligns with the disproportionate effect of AIDS on men, particularly within the queer community. (That isn't to say that women don't get AIDS and that queer women don't get AIDS, but the impact of the virus was very different.)
I'd also like to reiterate that the author of the novel is a gay man who lived through that time period.
I also strongly disagree with your characterization of a queer interpretation of fight club as being homophobic in any way. The point of the story in this interpretation isnt "gay men are toxic and hate women" it's "gay men were treated horribly by society, abandoned and left to die, and some subset of gay men engaged in self-destructive behaviors to cope with this." The narrator is never cast as being in the wrong for doing what he does, it's presented as a logical response to his material conditions — if the moral was "gay men are toxic and hate women" the whole story would be focused on all the ways that the narrator was wrong, and would end with him getting punished. Instead, the movie adaption ends with him blowing up the banks and the records of everyone's debt along with it.