SP blew it when they backed down after they were critiqued for their anti-EU-spot. They lost the anti-EU-voter because of the backing down, they lost middle-class progressives who're in favor of the EU by making the spot. They should've picked a path, and committed to it.
Belgium is entirely carried by how based the french Walloons are, marxists + socialists poll at 45% in the south while the right + far right flemish parties poll at 45% in the north.
Yes, and the marxists also have +/- 8.5% in Flanders at the moment, which isn't neglible.
When we campaign at factories, it's clear that many people vote VB but have a lot of sympathy for us. VB has the appeal of the anti-system vote (when you oppose the system, the current politics, the destruction of the welfare state etc., you vote VB), but people generally respect the activism and the presence of PVDA among the workers. It's only a matter of time before the anti-working class agenda of VB is laid bare for all to see, and they lose their anti-system appeal, then PVDA can take over their electoral base.
BTW, there's nothing specifically "based" about the Francophone Belgians. The radical left out-organised the radical right there, and because of that the hegemonic anti-system vote is with the left now. The radical right will only manage to make a breaktrough there if PVDA ever abandons it's principles. In other words, they have the same problems in the Francophone part of the country, as we have in Flanders, but because we're a disciplined and highly organised party with an active presence among the working class, we still manage to have a decent score there as well.
PVDA is the best thing Belgium has going, but it's pretty much the same as the SP used to be 10-15 years ago in the Netherlands. They are bureaucratic social-democrats, with only a minority of the party being made up of marxists.
WIth al due respect, but if you think that, you don't know anything about PVDA. PVDA is a marxist party. Marxism is the backbone of out party, and an open tactic or marketing campaign with flashy colours doesn't change that. If you're interested, I'd advise you to read this publication from the 8th congress of PVDA , where the fundamental direction of tha party was decided.
SP is anticommunist, however. Unless you're hedging your bets with Marxistisch Forum, I have high hopes for BIJ1 and all the new blood which hangs out around there (Radicaal, Rood)
Rood is pretty trotsky/kautsky filled at the moment, which I don't like, but it seems for some reason to be most popular with youth at the moment? Kinda confused on that tbh. They had their all-hands meeting today, and I got that impression
Most western European coms are leftcoms nowadays it seems. Older generations remember a soviet union and the communist resistance, the new ones are idealist and wish for bloodless revolution.
Utopianism is the largest trend across the European left. The fight right now in many countries is the same fight Marx and Engels were having, an argument against widespread utopianism and in favour of scientific socialism.
the new ones are idealist and wish for bloodless revolution.
Can you really blame someone for wanting to live in peace? People's consciousness doesn't magically appear; nobody is born as a ML. Consciousness develops trough changing material conditions, and the active presence of a broadly organised marxist party is crucial for guiding that process.
Understandable. I just want to combat the defeatism which I often see here: the "everyone in the West is useless"-sentiment. It's our duty to organise, and change the material conditions, not lament them.
There's still MLs in the Netherlands, they are in the CJB (Communist Youth Movement) though.
ROOD doesn't believe in a bloodless revolution, by the way. It was one of the things they got attacked for in the media (in favour of things such as arming the masses).
CJB has the benefit of being part of the NCPN, meaning they're actually organised. But they've got like , wat, 300 members? Pretty sure ROOD's got 1900 or so.
ROOD doesn’t believe in a bloodless revolution, by the way.
I know Kemerink was chastised for his comments about gun ownership. All of these party's actual leadership are communists (if often leftcoms). The Dutch left is in general, however, utopian.
I haven't spoken to a socialist under 30 in a while who isn't super pro-reform/kautsky anti-lenin/stalin. Also that the leaders of the most prominent socialist group (ROOD) are outspoken Kautksy/Trotsky people
Well yeah, the Marxists in the party are in MF, though with how hostile SP has positioned itself towards MF and Rood, I don't know how to feel about "steering the SP leftward" rather than organising outside of it. It is still the biggest currently existing left-wing platform, though.
The SP is dead, in a leftist sense. The last struggle happened from the Summer of 2020 till the end of 2021. That struggle was necessary, but ultimately the fight for power over the party was lost. All marxists/communists are in ROOD or in the Socialisten (Socialists) working groups / local parties. Only a handful of unorganized communists remain in the SP. Others that have left already before the 2020-2021 struggle, fled to the Animal Party or Bij1.
Source: I'm a member of Communist Platform, with a decade of daily experience with the SP, and now active in one of the Socialisten groups.
![The meat lobby[Farmers party, BBB] is up to 2nd place in the latest dutch polls. I hate this country so fucking much.](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/gj8e2PjQv6.png){kind=link}
SP blew it when they backed down after they were critiqued for their anti-EU-spot. They lost the anti-EU-voter because of the backing down, they lost middle-class progressives who're in favor of the EU by making the spot. They should've picked a path, and committed to it.
But the fact that they scored so high in the polls one day that the main business magazine published this , shows there's still potential. I always get the impression that people in the Netherlands are generally more progressive then in Belgium, yet Belgium now has a marxist party which is virtually the second or third party of the country .
Don't give up hope, organise.
Belgium is entirely carried by how based the french Walloons are, marxists + socialists poll at 45% in the south while the right + far right flemish parties poll at 45% in the north.
Yes, and the marxists also have +/- 8.5% in Flanders at the moment, which isn't neglible.
When we campaign at factories, it's clear that many people vote VB but have a lot of sympathy for us. VB has the appeal of the anti-system vote (when you oppose the system, the current politics, the destruction of the welfare state etc., you vote VB), but people generally respect the activism and the presence of PVDA among the workers. It's only a matter of time before the anti-working class agenda of VB is laid bare for all to see, and they lose their anti-system appeal, then PVDA can take over their electoral base.
BTW, there's nothing specifically "based" about the Francophone Belgians. The radical left out-organised the radical right there, and because of that the hegemonic anti-system vote is with the left now. The radical right will only manage to make a breaktrough there if PVDA ever abandons it's principles. In other words, they have the same problems in the Francophone part of the country, as we have in Flanders, but because we're a disciplined and highly organised party with an active presence among the working class, we still manage to have a decent score there as well.
Hopefully you're right, I don't live in Belgium anymore so I haven't seen the shift away from VB/NVA and I can't do much more than :vote: PVDA again.
PVDA is the best thing Belgium has going, but it's pretty much the same as the SP used to be 10-15 years ago in the Netherlands. They are bureaucratic social-democrats, with only a minority of the party being made up of marxists.
WIth al due respect, but if you think that, you don't know anything about PVDA. PVDA is a marxist party. Marxism is the backbone of out party, and an open tactic or marketing campaign with flashy colours doesn't change that. If you're interested, I'd advise you to read this publication from the 8th congress of PVDA , where the fundamental direction of tha party was decided.
SP is anticommunist, however. Unless you're hedging your bets with Marxistisch Forum, I have high hopes for BIJ1 and all the new blood which hangs out around there (Radicaal, Rood)
Rood is pretty trotsky/kautsky filled at the moment, which I don't like, but it seems for some reason to be most popular with youth at the moment? Kinda confused on that tbh. They had their all-hands meeting today, and I got that impression
Most western European coms are leftcoms nowadays it seems. Older generations remember a soviet union and the communist resistance, the new ones are idealist and wish for bloodless revolution.
Utopianism is the largest trend across the European left. The fight right now in many countries is the same fight Marx and Engels were having, an argument against widespread utopianism and in favour of scientific socialism.
Most western people are useless. In other news, water is still wet and gravity still pulls you down. :agony-4horsemen:
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Can you really blame someone for wanting to live in peace? People's consciousness doesn't magically appear; nobody is born as a ML. Consciousness develops trough changing material conditions, and the active presence of a broadly organised marxist party is crucial for guiding that process.
I understand why, just find it a pity.
Understandable. I just want to combat the defeatism which I often see here: the "everyone in the West is useless"-sentiment. It's our duty to organise, and change the material conditions, not lament them.
There's still MLs in the Netherlands, they are in the CJB (Communist Youth Movement) though.
ROOD doesn't believe in a bloodless revolution, by the way. It was one of the things they got attacked for in the media (in favour of things such as arming the masses).
CJB has the benefit of being part of the NCPN, meaning they're actually organised. But they've got like , wat, 300 members? Pretty sure ROOD's got 1900 or so.
I know Kemerink was chastised for his comments about gun ownership. All of these party's actual leadership are communists (if often leftcoms). The Dutch left is in general, however, utopian.
What gives you that impression?
I haven't spoken to a socialist under 30 in a while who isn't super pro-reform/kautsky anti-lenin/stalin. Also that the leaders of the most prominent socialist group (ROOD) are outspoken Kautksy/Trotsky people
Then I misread your comment. I thought you were saying that Rood was the most popular political organisation among youth in general.
Most popular socialist one, yeah. Most popular, fuckin wish
It's mixed, and can move in either direction, i would say.
Well yeah, the Marxists in the party are in MF, though with how hostile SP has positioned itself towards MF and Rood, I don't know how to feel about "steering the SP leftward" rather than organising outside of it. It is still the biggest currently existing left-wing platform, though.
MF has stopped existing, nearly everyone has moved to the new Socialisten working groups.
Damn 4real? What does that mean concretely? And how do CP, ROOD & radicaal fit into this?
The SP is dead, in a leftist sense. The last struggle happened from the Summer of 2020 till the end of 2021. That struggle was necessary, but ultimately the fight for power over the party was lost. All marxists/communists are in ROOD or in the Socialisten (Socialists) working groups / local parties. Only a handful of unorganized communists remain in the SP. Others that have left already before the 2020-2021 struggle, fled to the Animal Party or Bij1.
Source: I'm a member of Communist Platform, with a decade of daily experience with the SP, and now active in one of the Socialisten groups.