The US has been probably the most aggressive enemy of socialism in the world. Considering that it was founded on genocide and preventing the 'tyranny of the majority', I'd call the US government incompatible with socialism.
All people - even my fellow yanks - deserve a world with no USA
Russia was a monarchy with frequent pogroms and that one managed to turn out okay.
Death to America is a call that can rally people outside the country, those that have been negatively affected by the US, but those from within must seek to take it back.
It has a bad history sure, but it was also founded as a republic. "By the people for the people" and so on. Use what's already there to embolden the people.
The Russian Empire wasn't reformed into the USSR though; it was overthrown and replaced. Patriots of the empire, so to speak, fought against the revolution.
[T]hose from within [the US] must seek to take it back.
We've never had it. From the country's founding, it's been explicitly designed to prevent the ruling class' power from eroding.
James Madison wrote extensively on the subject in favor of our Senate system, including the following:
With every admissible subdivision of the Arable lands, a populousness not greater than that of England or France, will reduce the holders to a Minority. And whenever the Majority shall be without landed or other equivalent property and without the means or hope of acquiring it, what is to secure the rights of property against the danger from an equality & universality of suffrage.
The people deserve to be emboldened, but our democratic institutions are too much of a farce to be a means for that.
What nation of people? We're the embodiment of Patriarchal White Supremacist Capitalist Colonialism. That's what the US has been about since its founding, and if you don't like it then good. I don't either.
We can't pretend that America was once about democracy and acknowledge the fact that it wasn't. We can either pretend our best pieces of civic mythos are instead history, or we can reckon with the fact that we're all so far past the 'values' of our founders that we're going to have to forge a new identity.
The name doesn't necessarily have to change, but basically everything else about the US does.
Only white Americans give a shit about burning the American flag. Average POC don't give a fuck. There's a reason why patsocs are like 99% white with the token white-passing POC like Haz.
The current state must be changed, but not destroyed...
Once the bourgeois no longer have control of society the society doesn’t have to change any further...
I'm not sure that either of those things work that way, tbh.
To be in conflict with Capitalism is to be in conflict with the Bourgeois State; to refuse to destroy an opponent in conflict is to ensure one's own defeat.
The removal of the ruling class from power necessarily opens the proverbial floodgates to waves of social change such that the resulting society may not look at all like the one which preceded it.
The current state must be changed, but not destroyed.
"Both Britain and America, the biggest and the last representatives — in the whole world — of Anglo-Saxon 'liberty', in the sense that they had no militarist cliques and bureaucracy, have completely sunk into the all-European filthy, bloody morass of bureaucratic-military institutions which subordinate everything to themselves, and suppress everything. Today, in Britain and America, too, 'the precondition for every real people's revolution' is the smashing, the destruction of the 'ready-made state machinery'."
Nations exist as a people with a common culture, a shared history.
Capitalism ignores this, it sees only the individual and not the society.
Any successful Communism in the future of these countries will take elements from the cultures it arises in.
Socialism with Chinese characteristics is not a meme. It is form of socialism that was made specifically to work within historical Chinese canon and thinking. It is materialistic.
I understand the impulse but these people are cringe. I do believe there is some potential to use patriotism to support socialism (though self-conscious "Patriotic Socialism" is sus fash shit), but such a thing would only come about by a group authentically representing the demands of the American citizenry. No one gives a shit about Stalin and the holodomor in real life America, you just look like a crank putting that on a sign. Late stage capitalism does put us in the interesting position of the national interest opposing the capitalist interest increasingly more often, and it's there we should be looking to exploit opportunities for this sort of thing, not just slapping red white and blue on a Stalin face or something.
I hear about Stalin and the Holodomor all the damn time. It is THE anticommunist door slam -easily the most common anticommunist cudgel wielded by liberals. Stalin and the Holodomor is the reason I can’t safely be open in my community about my active membership in a communist party.
I'm trying to liberate PEOPLE, not "my country." Fuck my country. America needs to be destroyed, not liberated. There is literally nothing redeemable about the american identity.
Where's the lie?
If I didn't love my country then I wouldn't be trying to liberate from those who have turned its people into slaves.
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The US has been probably the most aggressive enemy of socialism in the world. Considering that it was founded on genocide and preventing the 'tyranny of the majority', I'd call the US government incompatible with socialism.
All people - even my fellow yanks - deserve a world with no USA
Russia was a monarchy with frequent pogroms and that one managed to turn out okay.
Death to America is a call that can rally people outside the country, those that have been negatively affected by the US, but those from within must seek to take it back.
It has a bad history sure, but it was also founded as a republic. "By the people for the people" and so on. Use what's already there to embolden the people.
The Russian Empire wasn't reformed into the USSR though; it was overthrown and replaced. Patriots of the empire, so to speak, fought against the revolution.
We've never had it. From the country's founding, it's been explicitly designed to prevent the ruling class' power from eroding.
James Madison wrote extensively on the subject in favor of our Senate system, including the following:
The people deserve to be emboldened, but our democratic institutions are too much of a farce to be a means for that.
Okay fine. Let me know how tearing it all down with the support of the people goes.
Keep burning those American flags if it's unsalvageable.
I never said reformed. I'm saying the nation of people persists through the change.
What nation of people? We're the embodiment of Patriarchal White Supremacist Capitalist Colonialism. That's what the US has been about since its founding, and if you don't like it then good. I don't either.
We can't pretend that America was once about democracy and acknowledge the fact that it wasn't. We can either pretend our best pieces of civic mythos are instead history, or we can reckon with the fact that we're all so far past the 'values' of our founders that we're going to have to forge a new identity.
The name doesn't necessarily have to change, but basically everything else about the US does.
Only white Americans give a shit about burning the American flag. Average POC don't give a fuck. There's a reason why patsocs are like 99% white with the token white-passing POC like Haz.
"only 70% of the population"
Good luck with your popular movement :)
A slave republic lmao. Jesus christ, I didn't expect this level of americanism on this website, but I guess nowhere is safe.
Why liberate the country when you could liberate the oppressed?
The people are the country. It is Capitalism that seeks to detach them.
Hmm... There are Nations, and then there are States, and there are also valid Non-National social groupings. It would be folly to confuse all three.
The current state must be changed, but not destroyed. The nation can live once that is done.
Once the bourgeois no longer have control of society the society doesn't have to change any further unless through the will of the people.
I'm not sure that either of those things work that way, tbh.
To be in conflict with Capitalism is to be in conflict with the Bourgeois State; to refuse to destroy an opponent in conflict is to ensure one's own defeat.
The removal of the ruling class from power necessarily opens the proverbial floodgates to waves of social change such that the resulting society may not look at all like the one which preceded it.
When I say "the state" I mean it's apparatuses and such. Definitely not the people who ran it into the ground in the first place.
I don't think the structures themselves are awful, but bourgeois influence certainly is.
"Both Britain and America, the biggest and the last representatives — in the whole world — of Anglo-Saxon 'liberty', in the sense that they had no militarist cliques and bureaucracy, have completely sunk into the all-European filthy, bloody morass of bureaucratic-military institutions which subordinate everything to themselves, and suppress everything. Today, in Britain and America, too, 'the precondition for every real people's revolution' is the smashing, the destruction of the 'ready-made state machinery'."
Read State and Revolution.
Lmao. That's some serious ideology.
Not sure I follow.
Nations exist as a people with a common culture, a shared history.
Capitalism ignores this, it sees only the individual and not the society.
Any successful Communism in the future of these countries will take elements from the cultures it arises in.
Socialism with Chinese characteristics is not a meme. It is form of socialism that was made specifically to work within historical Chinese canon and thinking. It is materialistic.
I understand the impulse but these people are cringe. I do believe there is some potential to use patriotism to support socialism (though self-conscious "Patriotic Socialism" is sus fash shit), but such a thing would only come about by a group authentically representing the demands of the American citizenry. No one gives a shit about Stalin and the holodomor in real life America, you just look like a crank putting that on a sign. Late stage capitalism does put us in the interesting position of the national interest opposing the capitalist interest increasingly more often, and it's there we should be looking to exploit opportunities for this sort of thing, not just slapping red white and blue on a Stalin face or something.
I hear about Stalin and the Holodomor all the damn time. It is THE anticommunist door slam -easily the most common anticommunist cudgel wielded by liberals. Stalin and the Holodomor is the reason I can’t safely be open in my community about my active membership in a communist party.
I'm trying to liberate PEOPLE, not "my country." Fuck my country. America needs to be destroyed, not liberated. There is literally nothing redeemable about the american identity.
Ah okay. So you will simply create a new identity wholesale from absolutely nothing then?