French President Emmanuel Macron said last month that he “cannot exclude” the possibility of Western soldiers being sent to aid Kiev in its fight against Moscow, branding Russia an “adversary” while denying Paris was “waging war” against it.
Russia’s military and top officials have repeatedly pointed to the presence of French mercenaries already fighting for Kiev on the ground.
In the statement on Tuesday, the SVR chief said the French Armed Forces had become “concerned” about the rising number of French nationals dying in Ukraine.
The casualty level has supposedly surpassed a “psychological threshold” and could trigger protests, the statement said, adding that Macron’s government was concealing this information and “delaying” the moment it would have to be revealed.
The claims come as the chief of staff of the French Army, Gen. Pierre Schill, said in an interview on Tuesday that France is prepared to take part in the “toughest engagements” militarily, and is ready to face any international developments. He added that Paris could assemble a division of 20,000 troops within 30 days and an army of 60,000 by joining with divisions from other NATO allies.
Russian President Vladimir Putin has also claimed this week that Western mercenaries, including French nationals, are dying in Ukraine “in large numbers.” Commenting on a potential NATO deployment to Ukraine, the president also warned that this would be “one step shy of a full-scale World War III.”
Cross posted this from lemmygrad
Love it
Love teetering over the edge of nuclear annihilation
It's so cool that our leaders have the additude of sheltered children
I saw Terminator 2 at a fairly young age
The nightmare that Sara Connor has where she watches a nuke obliterate LA stuck with me
Like I would wake up screaming from having nightmares about it
How does anyone even feel comfortable even coming close to having that happen, let alone try and risk it?
People making the decisions think their bunkers are going to sustain them.
I'm afraid it's easy worse than that. They don't really believe they'll need their bunkers, they are so high on their own supply that they believe they will be protected simply by being exceptional Aryan Übermenschen.
My parents said that it sucked, but that we were fortunate to live in this time now that the USSR was gone
Turns out USSR was the one keeping the world from nuclear annihilation
It went "well" in Libya, didn't it? For the French, yanks and NATO that is. Gaddafi was murdered, the country plunged into chaos and ruin
I guess it depends on how many refugees you want sailing paddle boats across the Mediterranean.
Refugees were never a problem for the ruling class, of this I am convinced. The "migrant crisis" have been overblown pretty heavily by the media, but even if it wasn't, and there were indeed droves upon droves of desperate people paddling to Europe's white shores - the bourgeoisie (who made them paddle in the first place) don't actually interact with them, nor are in danger of the potential criminal element among their ranks. If anything, they are profiting off of the desperation of the refugees and the panicking locals
Refugees were never a problem for the ruling class, of this I am convinced.
Migrant communities are difficult to police and to surveil, particularly when they're ghettoized but still heavily relied on for cheap labor. They can regularly form the heart of nascent union movements, rebellious groups, and revolutionary cohorts targeting neighboring bourgeoisie-friendly-but-unstable regimes. Russian exiles in the UK and France ended up toppling the Tsar. Cuban exiles overthrew Batista (and have threatened to overthrow the Castros in turn). Somali expats in America are a chronic thorn in the side of both Democrat and Republican regimes, as they push politicians in a direction that the national government doesn't want to go. Palestinians in Jordan are a major security concern for both the local King and his neighboring allies in Saudi Arabia, Israel, and Egypt.
There are plenty of ruling-class residents of these countries that are under real pressure thanks to the impact large, often-well-educated and politically active migrant communities have on the global geopolitics.
The "migrant crisis" have been overblown pretty heavily by the media, but even if it wasn't, and there were indeed droves upon droves of desperate people paddling to Europe's white shores - the bourgeoisie (who made them paddle in the first place) don't actually interact with them, nor are in danger of the potential criminal element among their ranks.
The "migrant crisis" is a tool by southwestern and midwestern conservative Republicans to attack their Democrat peers. However you perceive the actual presence of Latin American migrants (or Eastern European / East Asian / Middle Eastern migrants, depending on how far you want to take the hysterical claims), the fixation on climate refugees as a threat is destabilizing to the current national government.
If you're aligned with the Biden Administration, your bourgeoisie affiliation does not leave you immune to the threat that a Trump-ascendant government presents. If nothing else, Trump's fixation on Right Wing Bugbears (the entire state of California, the mastheads of DC and New York news media, the rapidly growing private green energy industries) pose a threat to the financial elites tied in with these wealth aggregating sectors.
Just last week there was an article where
was trying to posture but a bunch of other people in the french government clarified that all boots on the ground would be in support roles like demining and supply lines. They aren't going to do shit lol. At most 30k dumbasses will show up to be water boys to the azov for a week and then pack up and go on home. And it will be lauded by the press as the greatest french victory since they killed all the africans who fought for them.I honestly hope you're right. I just didn't see the west as capable of fighting peer opponents.
France hasn't fought a peer opponent since it got its ass kicked in Vietnam afaik.
They really haven't; if they go into this, the results will melt the psyche of every westoid.
They won't get a tenth of the success they anticipate. The reality will hit them so hard that they might just start another war in the sahel to boost westoid moral.
These guys are going in to help defend Odessa I think. They already acknowledge they can be legitimately targeted by the Russian federation.
Even at the high end of a 60k multinational coalition, I don't get what that would achieve at this point in the war. Maybe if it was immediately after the first Russian offensive stalled, but two years in Russia now has a war economy. It has trade agreements for increasing numbers of drones and shells which it has refined through daily live fire against NATO vehicles, weapons, and tactics. Nothing within 70km of the frontline is safe from FABs and the Ukrainians squandered their chance to build defensive lines as they were mocking the Russians for doing so last year. They can shoot hypersonic missiles anywhere in the country, launch like 100+ daily sorties for FABs, and have a secure supply chain for their massive artillery advantage.
It's such WW1 logic to think that you can stop a fundamentally different kind of war by throwing another wave of obsolete troops into the meat grinder.
It's not so much about turning the tide at this point, it's about keeping the grinder fed
Maybe European rulers have come to the conclusion that they need to keep the meat grinder running in order to stabilise their regimes? The big bad Russian bogeyman has proven incredibly useful for distracting the public and justifying austerity, crackdown on dissent and expansion of the security state. If the war stops Putin will no longer be as scary and people might start to ask why their schools are falling apart or why their roads are full of potholes or why nothing is being done to avert climate disaster. They might demand some kind of peace dividend.
Pretty much
That and nothing is more profitable than a war
I still remember when they jacked up food prices and blamed it on the war
Even for things that didn't use any products farmed or made in Ukraine
It's the same level of strategic thinking as in low level MOBA games - one by oning into terrible fights and getting owned.
Nato confirmed bronzies
The west needs to farm side lanes in order to catch backup in econ before they fight for big objectives.
I don't like how in this analogy plundering the third world would be"farming the sidelanes"
"People would be so mad if they knew how many mercenaries were thrown away into this meatgrinder in gormless human wave attacks, surely they would demand we start throwing even more lives away into the meatgrinder! Will we ask for public approval? No, we're just gonna go with the tossing people into the meatgrinder idea, surely it's what they want. Well it's what we want, anyways, so that's what they're getting. Tossed into the meatgrinder for our vanity."
Something something, the savage European peninsula where life is cheap, something something brainpans, something something bloodthirsty scions of Mars.
foreign legion arrives
its half russian anyways
they decide to return to france through transsiberian railroad for memes
its half russian anyways
More the reason to send them - they know the language, can read documents and intercept radio chatter. Maybe even know the locale. There are already ethnic Russian and just Russian speaking units in AFU, so there is precedent
Media bluff, if the Russians fall for this nonsense it's honestly on them
I really hope you are right. Sadly, I don't think World War III is off the table in our lifetime. Not doom posting; I just think it's within the realm of possibility, and that alone is very concerning. Not saying even if the French deploy, it's World War III, just that should it happen, it would be a further step on the path of escalation.
The western media may be high on copium, but every single western military is perfectly aware what a bloodbath the war is for Ukrainian troops
The French elites aren't going to press the button labeled "most dead French soldiers since WW2" not over Ukraine
This is really an example of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, while half the media is decrying the retention shortfalls of European armies the other half is pumping its chest out and asserting Macron is about to send the Imperial Guard reborn into the guns of massed Russian artillery
It's not just Ukraine, mind you. America's stance towards the PRC has gotten more aggressive as well. It seems like people in some circles of the US government almost want a war with China. I do agree that France would get fucked hard if they deployed their 30,000 to 60,000 men. At the very least, it would serve as a reality check when thousands of soldiers come home in body bags.
Western historians still consider 1939 to be the start of WW2 despite the other half of the world starting it years earlier
I think it's a half truth; France will continue to send troops but
- they will not do any fighting, maybe "training" or advising
Or
- they will be sending troops to actually fight, but they will add an additional 100-200 people on the front line.
This is not a bluff. I predict they are being sent to defend Odessa. The only question is Russia willing to take Odessa knowing that it will be targeting French troops directly. This is the point where leftists in my opinion should start to think about criticizing the Russian war effort and I say that as probably one of the wars biggest advocates on the site.
I’ve been calling this. The Europeans are not playing around. My only question is are they acting within the United States direction or not. Keep in mind that from the Europeans perspective the Americans have pulled massive amounts of money out.
There have been euro troops in theater for pretty much the entire conflict. They're doing shit on the back end (and also running euro missile defense gear) that doesn't place them in direct combat, the idea being that they're freeing up Ukrainians to go be killed by artillery rather than repair vehicles, move hardware, etc. I think this is just big-talking sending French troops to do the same thing.
I know Europeans have been in theater the entire conflict but they’ve been acting as foreign fighters. Also the amount of surveillance equipment in Ukraine means that unless you’re in protected nato territory then you are not doing shit on the back end. Ukrainian rear lines are actively being hit constantly. Being part of missile defense is being a combatant.
This however is different, they’re not talking about foreign French fighter (of which there are already many of in Ukraine. Russia killed 60 of them recently) they’re talking about French troops I assume in French uniform. My theory is they are going in to protect Odessa. Basically to act as a shield for Ukraines last port. The French already acknowledged if they send troops they will be legitimate targets for Russia. They’re wanting to see if Russia is willing to fire on nato troops. Problem is Russia has already said they’re prepared to fight NATO. From my perspective this war either ends with Russia allowing Ukraine to keep Odessa or this broadens into an actual war between Russia and whatever European nations decide to follow France’s lead. The Germans are already making plans to take down the Crimea bridge.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65245065
According to the document, dated 23 March, the UK has the largest contingent of special forces in Ukraine (50), followed by fellow Nato states Latvia (17), France (15), the US (14) and the Netherlands (1).
There have been official western troops not operating as mercenaries in Ukraine for quite some time
The document does not say where the forces are located or what they are doing.
This is the part that makes all the difference in the world. Even though we all know special operations forces are acting in Ukraine, unless you can prove they’re taking orders directly from their respective nations they are no different from a foreign fighter. Throw in the fact that Ukraine is wearing western uniforms themselves there is no way to distinguish an SAS or Green Beret operative from a Ukrainian. This is what makes Macrons troop comment significant. These will be known French troops out in the open taking orders from France.
Keep in mind that from the Europeans perspective the Americans have pulled massive amounts of money out.
I don't think they've comprehended that yet
oui oui monsieur a second baguette has hit the Eiffel Tower
If they do this it has to be the French Foreign Legion. It won't cause many domestic issues and they don't have family connections in France so if they all die it won't matter to anyone there.
It’ll also be a good propaganda push. “Look at these epic tactical operators from all ethnicities and backgrounds united against the ruzzians! We shall honor their sacrifice and make them posthumous citizens!”
Yeah of all the nato countries France is fairly unique in being able to perform this. The UK still has some foreign regiments but they're kinda specialist and hidden within other units. There's the Gurkhas but I'm not particularly sure how Nepal would react if it heard its citizens were being sent by the British to go fight alongside of nazis... I would hope it would be very VERY bad for the British government and the continuation of operating their recruitment and bases in Nepal but I have no idea how Nepalese politics on this matter really looks. I'd love to see those bases shut down and the British kicked out. It's possible that Nepal just doesn't want to create several thousand very angry people out of the relatively well paid (for nepal) Gurkhas with British military training.
Who would actually fight? I feel that none of those people would actually do something so stupid as fight Russian troops/ deal with airstrikes.
They're as would be as good as dogfood; dead meat. They know this. I think it will be massively unpopular even among foreign legions. We might see people straight up defecting.
They'll fight until they realise first hand that this isn't a war where you fight but more like one where you hide in a hole from artillery, missiles and drones. When they realise what it is their willingness to be there will collapse very quickly. That probability won't stop France trying.
Oh I agree, this will be a shit show regardless if French soldiers proper or their foreign legions are fighting.
I think the west is genuinely out matched by Russia. The power and economic difference is so great that (unless nukes are being used) ww3 is going to be a one-sided bloodbath.
If they throw nato troops into Russia, it won't change the trajectory of Ukraine. It'll just expedite western Europe's decline.
I don't think the west is looking to start ww3 yet they're looking to create situations that will justify extreme policy in order to reorganise society to resolve the problems they have. They need to rebuild a massive manufacturing base and for that a complete societal reorganisation is required to move labourers from services into manufacturing. This requires a significant political reason to pull off because otherwise it alone will collapse western societies due to unhappiness both from the left and the far right.
I personally think they're doing calculated incremental increases to reach the political conditions necessary to achieve that. They have to decouple or ww3 is as you say, a nuke war and end of the world. Only decoupling and rebuilding manufacturing can enable them to win a war without nukes.
All of this shit is just trying to turn the dial very slightly without the nukes flying.
Without their daily wine rations, they'll collapse faster than an improperly baked soufflé
True or merely a bluff, escalating things in this way did just that - escalate the conflict. Who knew?
