ok so you want to do a Children of Men but let the last generation live out their lives in pleasure domes and then nothing? Empty universe, empty head, empty existence, suicide on a global scale? Just consider the consequences of your politics. Would it be better to speed things along with a few nuclear wars? Or do people have the right to continue their current existence. There is nothing like a soul existing in the Bardo, waiting to be reborn. There is nothing before life and nothing after. A universe of marbles and probabilities and new chances for life that might not have the same easy time as us. Life that might become intelligent and find that all the easily exploitable resources on Earth have been sucked dry and so, they are forced to live in terrible conditions for aeons, with no hope of ever improving their lives. Are you willing to condemn them to greater suffering than we experience now?
yes, we should seek to minimize suffering. that means luxury communism, no new sapient life, and probably veganism.
the immorality of creating life doesn't suggest murder is suddenly acceptable. We wish we hadn't been born, that's different from wanting to die.
There is nothing like a soul existing in the Bardo, waiting to be reborn. There is nothing before life and nothing after. A universe of marbles and probabilities and new chances for life
yeah and? how does the existence of beings who can suffer and cognitively recognize we are suffering make anything better?
My point is that although life is pain now, it's comparatively easier to extract fossil fuel from shallow reservoirs than deep ones. The next intelligent species might therefore never develop labor saving technology.
No need to yell at me, I know what it feels like to be hopeless and in pain and I would prefer that noone has to go through that, but I also know that it doesn't last forever, and there will always be things and people that bring joy and beauty, and those things make life worth living. In my opinion at least.
no, you can't know that for other people. you don't know the future like that. the hedonic treadmill doesn't mean conditions changed. getting numbed to torture doesn't stop the torture.
I feel pretty confident in saying that most people, past, present or future, have some reason to want to exist, justified or not. That doesn't mean existence is all good and cool.
I just don't understand why your position is what it is, and probably won't without some longer conversation about the specific pains you're going through. I just think it's a selfish, nihilistic position to take, and I don't think you're going to keep thinking this way. I held many of the same views earlier in life but no longer do, and so my viewpoint is colored by that.
I feel pretty confident in saying that most people, past, present or future, have some reason to want to exist, justified or not. That doesn’t mean existence is all good and cool.
we (usually) want to keep living. there would be nobody to care if we weren't born.
I just think it’s a selfish, nihilistic position to take, and I don’t think you’re going to keep thinking this way. I held many of the same views earlier in life but no longer do, and so my viewpoint is colored by that.
suffering is bad
we should minimize suffering
it's immoral to inflict suffering on someone or create conditions that make their suffering inevitable
every person who lives suffers
we don't choose to be conceived or born
creating new people is coercive
it's immoral to create new people because those people will inevitably suffer.
I really don't think you can reason me out of these.
selfish
no, the selfish thing is to have kids when you have a choice not to.
Other people have gone through worse than I have, but what has been done to me is bad enough that jeff bezos giving me all his money tomorrow wouldn't make it OK, and i could live the rest of my life in hedonistic excess and it still wouldn't be worth it.
ok so you want to do a Children of Men but let the last generation live out their lives in pleasure domes and then nothing? Empty universe, empty head, empty existence, suicide on a global scale? Just consider the consequences of your politics. Would it be better to speed things along with a few nuclear wars? Or do people have the right to continue their current existence. There is nothing like a soul existing in the Bardo, waiting to be reborn. There is nothing before life and nothing after. A universe of marbles and probabilities and new chances for life that might not have the same easy time as us. Life that might become intelligent and find that all the easily exploitable resources on Earth have been sucked dry and so, they are forced to live in terrible conditions for aeons, with no hope of ever improving their lives. Are you willing to condemn them to greater suffering than we experience now?
yes, we should seek to minimize suffering. that means luxury communism, no new sapient life, and probably veganism.
the immorality of creating life doesn't suggest murder is suddenly acceptable. We wish we hadn't been born, that's different from wanting to die.
yeah and? how does the existence of beings who can suffer and cognitively recognize we are suffering make anything better?
easy time? EASY FUCKING TIME? fuck you. FUCK YOU.
My point is that although life is pain now, it's comparatively easier to extract fossil fuel from shallow reservoirs than deep ones. The next intelligent species might therefore never develop labor saving technology.
No need to yell at me, I know what it feels like to be hopeless and in pain and I would prefer that noone has to go through that, but I also know that it doesn't last forever, and there will always be things and people that bring joy and beauty, and those things make life worth living. In my opinion at least.
no, you can't know that for other people. you don't know the future like that. the hedonic treadmill doesn't mean conditions changed. getting numbed to torture doesn't stop the torture.
I feel pretty confident in saying that most people, past, present or future, have some reason to want to exist, justified or not. That doesn't mean existence is all good and cool.
I just don't understand why your position is what it is, and probably won't without some longer conversation about the specific pains you're going through. I just think it's a selfish, nihilistic position to take, and I don't think you're going to keep thinking this way. I held many of the same views earlier in life but no longer do, and so my viewpoint is colored by that.
we (usually) want to keep living. there would be nobody to care if we weren't born.
suffering is bad
we should minimize suffering
it's immoral to inflict suffering on someone or create conditions that make their suffering inevitable
every person who lives suffers
we don't choose to be conceived or born
creating new people is coercive
it's immoral to create new people because those people will inevitably suffer.
I really don't think you can reason me out of these.
no, the selfish thing is to have kids when you have a choice not to.
Other people have gone through worse than I have, but what has been done to me is bad enough that jeff bezos giving me all his money tomorrow wouldn't make it OK, and i could live the rest of my life in hedonistic excess and it still wouldn't be worth it.