tldr: We colonised and genocided much of the world, and most of the white people in the world now assume that we're richer because we're smarter, not richer because we stole everything. Throughout modern history, nearly all white progressives and leftists have taken the side of imperialism, because it benefits us materially. There's a handful of based white people in history, but they're few and far between.
Edit: if a member of an oppressed group wants to say "fuck white people", the very least I can do is acknowledge all the crimes heaped upon them by us, and not debate bro them about reverse racism or something.
TBH this sounds almost like internalized racism, but the other way around. We're not our ancestors, but still we need to remember that we're prone to their mistakes.
if a member of an oppressed group wants to say "fuck white people", the very least I can do is acknowledge all the crimes heaped upon them by us, and not debate bro them about reverse racism or something.
Even though I came from a working class family from the West, I still have a fuck of white privilege. Having to hear "fuck white ppl" like 2x a year barely comes close to what non-white people have faced.
TBH this sounds almost like internalized racism
DID COLONIALISM AND GENOCIDE NOT FUCKING HAPPEN?!?!?
Also this looks condescending
Honestly, how would you like it phrased??? Oh please sir, care more about Palestine than your ego.
Super cool of you to reframe current and historical oppression as "some abstract guilt". I'm making a real effort to answer your question, but it's like you're making a bad faith effort to not engage with it but rather reframe everything to reaffirm your old beliefs.
No, the reason it's relevant is because white people still benefit overwhelmingly from the colonization that still happens. In addition, racism towards white people isn't possible in imperial core nations because they are overwhelmingly white supremacist. Bigotry can in specific cases happen against white people but racism requires the backing of culture at large, bigotry is individualized while racism is systematic.
Same as if a white person would shout f*ck jews/muslims/whites: with an utter disrespect and disgust. If you allow them to be in that position, it's still a result of colonialism and supremacy, but in a more profound form.
Same as if a white person would shout f*ck jews/muslims/whites:
If you really think that POC (historically oppressed, almost always by white people) calling someone a cracker or saying they hate white people, is exactly the same as a white person (oppressors of basically everybody else for centuries) yelling hate at the groups white people have oppressed, I don't know how to help you. From a white person to a POC, it's an expression of oppression, an echoing of the white supremacist values that the USA or UK are built on. Cops still do racial profiling.
From a POC to a white person, it's them expressing their distaste for oblivious, historically ignorant clowns and racists. No white person's life is gonna be in danger because someone who isn't white said they hate em.
I can see how these situations are different from the historical standpoint. I can see why PoC express angst and frustration to white people. Cannot praise it, since I fail to see how it leads to liberation, but ok.
I can see how these situations are different from systematic standpoint. The racial profiling you have mentioned, the economic inferiority of black US population, and, of course, hate groups.
But from the interpersonal relationships, I just can't stand it. I am not ok with people around me who say "fuck white people". It's a pure cringe.
It doesn't have to "lead to liberation", christ. If people of colour wanna take the piss out of their oppressors after hundreds of years, who the fuck are you to stop them? Given how bad a hand they've been dealt by a white supremacist society, it should make you stop and think about why someone would be so angry at whitey. Relatedly, I ain't gonna stop calling people "cissies", because lmao.
Yes exactly, all of the historical racism(and intertwined imperialism) we're talking about still happens today, just by different means. We still live in a white supremacist society, sadly, even with the progress that the civil rights movement for example made.
YOU are pure cringe Who are you, from your position of privilege (i.e. being white) to dictate how those experiencing oppression at the hands of white people should behave? What kind of tone-policing bs is that???
Given how bad a hand they've been dealt by a white supremacist society, it should make you stop and think about why someone would be so angry at whitey.
TBH it sounds to me exactly like "These children's parents were beheaded, let them throw rocks to cars".
Yes exactly, all of the historical racism(and intertwined imperialism) we're talking about still happens today, just by different means. We still live in a white supremacist society, sadly, even with the progress that the civil rights movement for example made.
We do indeed. Let's remember that we agree at least on this topic.
YOU are pure cringe
Shame. I genuinely think that I'm missing something on this topic like I did when there was Trans / Black lives matter vs All lives matter.
You are. But we gave you concise and easy to digest answers as well as links to full blown literature if you need a more thorough look at the topic to understand it, which it seems like you do. Read Settlers.
Idk what the fuck you're talking about but, sure. Why are you people so intent on non-sequiturs? POC saying they hate white people is never going to hurt you as much as a rock is, though.
Yeah you must be, even though several people have laid it out in detail throughout this thread, like: You don't get to be a white person and tut-tut at POC for being angry at white people given all the shit white people have caused and are causing. POC are right to be mad, and hating white people is the expected outcome.
Like others said, stop buying into the idea that whiteness is more than a social construct. Idk start thinking of yourself in terms of nationality or ethnicity. That is if nothing else a good starting point for getting over any hangups
tldr: We colonised and genocided much of the world, and most of the white people in the world now assume that we're richer because we're smarter, not richer because we stole everything. Throughout modern history, nearly all white progressives and leftists have taken the side of imperialism, because it benefits us materially. There's a handful of based white people in history, but they're few and far between.
long version: read Settlers
Edit: if a member of an oppressed group wants to say "fuck white people", the very least I can do is acknowledge all the crimes heaped upon them by us, and not debate bro them about reverse racism or something.
TBH this sounds almost like internalized racism, but the other way around. We're not our ancestors, but still we need to remember that we're prone to their mistakes.
Also this looks condescending
Even though I came from a working class family from the West, I still have a fuck of white privilege. Having to hear "fuck white ppl" like 2x a year barely comes close to what non-white people have faced.
DID COLONIALISM AND GENOCIDE NOT FUCKING HAPPEN?!?!?
Honestly, how would you like it phrased??? Oh please sir, care more about Palestine than your ego.
It is happening right now, but somehow we focus on past events and some abstract guilt
Super cool of you to reframe current and historical oppression as "some abstract guilt". I'm making a real effort to answer your question, but it's like you're making a bad faith effort to not engage with it but rather reframe everything to reaffirm your old beliefs.
No, the reason it's relevant is because white people still benefit overwhelmingly from the colonization that still happens. In addition, racism towards white people isn't possible in imperial core nations because they are overwhelmingly white supremacist. Bigotry can in specific cases happen against white people but racism requires the backing of culture at large, bigotry is individualized while racism is systematic.
If it's happening right now it's not a past event it's an ongoing event still in progress.
Same as if a white person would shout f*ck jews/muslims/whites: with an utter disrespect and disgust. If you allow them to be in that position, it's still a result of colonialism and supremacy, but in a more profound form.
I don't recall Jewish or Muslims committing pogroms and wars against us. What a weird response. This isn't going well for you.
If you really think that POC (historically oppressed, almost always by white people) calling someone a cracker or saying they hate white people, is exactly the same as a white person (oppressors of basically everybody else for centuries) yelling hate at the groups white people have oppressed, I don't know how to help you. From a white person to a POC, it's an expression of oppression, an echoing of the white supremacist values that the USA or UK are built on. Cops still do racial profiling.
From a POC to a white person, it's them expressing their distaste for oblivious, historically ignorant clowns and racists. No white person's life is gonna be in danger because someone who isn't white said they hate em.
Do you see the difference?
I can see how these situations are different from the historical standpoint. I can see why PoC express angst and frustration to white people. Cannot praise it, since I fail to see how it leads to liberation, but ok.
I can see how these situations are different from systematic standpoint. The racial profiling you have mentioned, the economic inferiority of black US population, and, of course, hate groups.
But from the interpersonal relationships, I just can't stand it. I am not ok with people around me who say "fuck white people". It's a pure cringe.
It doesn't have to "lead to liberation", christ. If people of colour wanna take the piss out of their oppressors after hundreds of years, who the fuck are you to stop them? Given how bad a hand they've been dealt by a white supremacist society, it should make you stop and think about why someone would be so angry at whitey. Relatedly, I ain't gonna stop calling people "cissies", because lmao.
Yes exactly, all of the historical racism(and intertwined imperialism) we're talking about still happens today, just by different means. We still live in a white supremacist society, sadly, even with the progress that the civil rights movement for example made.
YOU are pure cringe
Who are you, from your position of privilege (i.e. being white) to dictate how those experiencing oppression at the hands of white people should behave? What kind of tone-policing bs is that???
TBH it sounds to me exactly like "These children's parents were beheaded, let them throw rocks to cars".
We do indeed. Let's remember that we agree at least on this topic.
Shame. I genuinely think that I'm missing something on this topic like I did when there was Trans / Black lives matter vs All lives matter.
You are. But we gave you concise and easy to digest answers as well as links to full blown literature if you need a more thorough look at the topic to understand it, which it seems like you do. Read Settlers.
Idk what the fuck you're talking about but, sure. Why are you people so intent on non-sequiturs? POC saying they hate white people is never going to hurt you as much as a rock is, though.
Yeah you must be, even though several people have laid it out in detail throughout this thread, like: You don't get to be a white person and tut-tut at POC for being angry at white people given all the shit white people have caused and are causing. POC are right to be mad, and hating white people is the expected outcome.
Like others said, stop buying into the idea that whiteness is more than a social construct. Idk start thinking of yourself in terms of nationality or ethnicity. That is if nothing else a good starting point for getting over any hangups
Nope. I'm Russian
Russian to put out extremely bad takes
So Russian and Slav. Why not identify as those more than the arbitrary category of "white". I have to live with being Italian, I'd kill to be Russian
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this is cringe