These teens are getting roped into neo-fascism in absence of Marxist guidance showing them what the “matrix” actually represents. Vulnerable young men are getting told that yes, corporations are oppressing them, and yes, the US government is a puppet of the rich - but the solution being presented to them is to become an exploiter themselves rather than any form of class solidarity or dialectical materialism. I really feel like this “escape the matrix” rhetoric is the kind of thing we can capitalise on instead of just standing idly by as young men have their very real grievances with modern life twisted into something wholly unhealthy

There really needs to be some solid communist dating advice for these young men, other than "just be yourself" and "be a good person" kind of stuff. Like real, concrete steps on how a guy can be diverted from the incel/pua/tate path. Tbh a lot of the pua advice is common sense stuff (try to groom yourself well, don't be afraid to put yourself out there, etc.).

I remember there were some good comments in a thread somewhere here (I'm pretty sure it was on c/menby but I can't seem to find it)

  • SadStruggle92 [none/use name]
    ·
    2 years ago

    My identity is based around the fact that basically everyone that I knew of in my early childhood resented me, and the mannerisms that I held as a consequence of my autism. So I got the shit beaten out of me by my teachers, while my parents descended into self-loathing & alcoholism, and I was alternately shunned or antagonized by my "peers" around me. Very little of that ever actually changed as I grew up, and I'm still dealing with the physical consequences of that upbringing today, tbh.

    So, even before we get to the idea of sex, at a fundamental level I don't really conceive of myself as being a legitimate member of society. I don't belong around real people, is what I mean by that. Or the way I remember articulating the matter to my grandmother when she asked me why I didn't want to "make friends", is that "I don't want to try to be friends with anybody, because everyone already hates me no matter what I do". That's something I said nearly two decades ago now, and it still feels mostly true.

    And so I guess the thing that you could say about it, that informs my basic perspective on a lot of things, is that I don't really have any actually-existing basis on which to believe in much of anything about mutual solidarity, or like, the inherent goodness or value of people. Like there is nothing there, it is all as the wind, intangible & ungraspable. And like, I guess that effects the way that I think these issues, both at a personal & social level.

            • DivineChaos100 [none/use name]
              ·
              2 years ago

              Sorry, i just didn't know what to say.

              The problem with what you devised is - at least as far as i can remember - that it depends on the individual what they constitute as a meaningful relationship. For some it's sex. For some it's friendship. It's too uhh liquid (?) a concept imo to be considered as human rights unlike housing or food. But i guess "for everyone whatever they need" would comprise of these problems as well.

              The thing is i don't believe in "rights" as a formal concept anyway so again i don't know if i am the right person to talk to about this.

              • SadStruggle92 [none/use name]
                ·
                2 years ago

                The thing is i don’t believe in “rights” as a formal concept anyway so again i don’t know if i am the right person to talk to about this.

                Your previous statements are fair, but with regards to this, I feel like I have to, because if I completely discard the idea of rights then there's no basis on which I can say that anything bad that anyone does to me is unjustified.

                • DivineChaos100 [none/use name]
                  ·
                  2 years ago

                  You're right, there has to be a standard to that and maybe i wasn't clear but i am only against it's formal use, as in, since i am an anarchist, my conception of rights isn't a set of moral baselines coded in law but as an unwritten bare minimum i adhere myself to.

                  • SadStruggle92 [none/use name]
                    ·
                    2 years ago

                    That is fair.

                    I appreciate that you were willing to continue speaking with me for at least a little bit longer. TY. I hope your weekend has been good; mine is okay.

        • infuziSporg [e/em/eir]
          ·
          2 years ago

          I just don’t understand why, if we all agree that people need meaningful & positive social lives within a definite community to be healthy in body & mind; I don’t understand why those things can’t be articulated as rights.

          We can't secure the outcomes as rights, but we can secure reasonable opportunities and support as rights.

          I don't think you have the thought process of an incel. Incels reify gender essentialism and actively blame other people. It is human to have a desire for other human beings, and to feel frustrated when there is no outlet for this and the desires go nowhere. Although I have dated a few people starting in my 20s, I have been in your shoes. And I agree that we should be building a society where people are free to associate with each other, discover each other, trust in each other, fall in love with each other. We can't guarantee that it happens, but we can tip the scales in that direction.

          I was shocked at how people here called you "incel" for expressing your frustrations constructively and thoughtfully. It was a stark difference between the sentiment in the post yesterday with the "[how to go about] Fucking Trans Women" zine.

          Again, I'd be happy to chat privately, or even play some vidya with you - that was a form of socialization that kept me sane when I was a hermit. :meow-hug:

          • SadStruggle92 [none/use name]
            ·
            2 years ago

            It was a stark difference between the sentiment in the post yesterday with the “[how to go about] Fucking Trans Women” zine.

            The what now?

            :jesse-wtf:

            Again, I’d be happy to chat privately, or even play some vidya with you - that was a form of socialization that kept me sane when I was a hermit.

            Okay, so you've made this offer to me a couple times in dms & elsewhere. I'm not exactly upset by it, and I do appreciate you going out of your way to engage positively with me here, but I'm not 100% interested right now. I am actually moving forward with some of my own independent life-plans rn; and things may not get strictly "better", but they're changing & I want to try to continue pursuing things on my own rn. I hope you understand, y'know.

            • infuziSporg [e/em/eir]
              ·
              2 years ago

              The what now?

              https://hexbear.net/post/230108

              Not that high-profile but still fresh in my mind. "I hope every other progressive-minded person finds fulfilment too" is a good take.

              And I just wanted to make sure there was something going for you. I don't want anyone to be alone -- besides the committed, lifelong reactionaries who are too far gone.