There are a few users on the site without pronouns now (other than "none/use name", I mean like there is no pronoun field at all)
Was considering writing a 
patch for this unless this is intended behavior now? I would have submitted a diff but I can't build lemmy on my system to test any changes :(
It seems like the patch would be pretty easy, there is already pronoun validation code it just needs to be applied when people try to update their username
This seems like a deviation from the path laid out for us by comrade TC69
What do you think?
It's a UI and a server smh, this isn't a store/restaurant with a front end and a back end
Oh wait....
Welcome to Hexbear, may I take your order? Would you like to try our world famous Posadist Hot Sauce?
Actually can I have the black mold vegan pizza? With an order of beans?
You ever think about how on a website the server is the back end, but at a restaurant the server is the front end?
No? Yeah me neither.
I guess it depends? You could think of the UI as the menu, then the server is your interface to the resources, and it's responsible for maintaining the integrity property that you only receive resources when authorized?
Cissies not being forced to pick pronouns is pure revisionism and needs to be adressed ASAP. If people have deliberately circumvented the pronoun selection, they should also get banned.
It's honestly kind of a defining feature of this place, and shouldn't be watered down.
I was there when it all happened, “revisionism” is absolutely the word for it. So many cissies trying to weasel out of just doing one little thing to support trans comrades here. 100% behind patching this.
I had a very strong impression many of the complaints came from concern trolling cis people and they weren't very convincing in hiding their transphobia. They particularly did not complain about a lack of neopronouns, although some complained about opsec reasons - which can be easily adressed by picking none / use name or another neutral option, or just lying - if you value opsec over validation of your gender identity, why would you need a site culture where he / him is the implied default?
If people weren't happy with the lack of neopronouns (which was, ofc, a legitimate concern), why would they oppose pronoun tags on principle instead of demanding them, but with more inclusive options? The majority of the criticism back then was thinly veiled transphobia, please don't try to legitimize that.
I had a very strong impression many of the complaints came from concern trolling cis people and they weren't very convincing in hiding their transphobia.
as a cis guy who was there, I agree. I remember being against mandatory pronoun selections just from my own perspective (I'd rather people just hit me with the they/them or implied neutral he/him or random she/her or whatever else they feel like than feel the need to check what I set it to) but I have come to understand the other perspectives. And, when I was against it, it was in the mildest "this isn't really a big deal" kind of way, I remember scrolling through the thread(s?) and just being like "what the fuck is wrong with these losers" lmao, the struggle session really baffled me at the time. it's a pronoun box, it isn't the end of the world
In hindsight, I understand that we had a pretty big core userbase of reactionary internet troll / bully types who liked dunking on liberals way more than they were interested in any kind of solidarity with their comrades. they understood enough about communism to know why the end goal is correct, but didn't really care about how a communist movement could or should be built. surface-level communists, i guess
and to conclude this ramble with some kind of point: I think that this struggle session and a couple others were necessary for the identity of the site and for its long-term health. it's good that a bunch of dumb nerds went full
over a lil fuckin ui element and got banned and we built a pretty strong community of people who were, for one reason or another, in agreement about the fact that those guys sucked and it's good they're goneofc that should be an option, i'm friends with trans people irl that need this option because these people want to be adressed without third person pronouns, but to say that lack of options was the actual main concern in these struggle sessions is denying that we had a substantial number of transphobes from r/stupidpol in the community when we originally got kicked out of reddit, that they vocally opposed the trans inclusivity of this site, that we successfully purged them and that this was a good and important part of building the site culture.
I think a ban would be a bad idea, some users might be using alternative apps that don't present hexbear's vision clearly or other issues like they may not natively speak English or did it unintentionally. I'm very serious about the unintentional detail, there is a way to do it accidentally, I can explain how to any admins in private if necessary.
Yeahh, good point, some people might be using apps or something that don't add them to your username
I use a mobile app that doesn't support display names. I wish it did! Maybe we need to fork one and build our own.
Uphold TC69 thought, patch it and maybe set any missing to "none/use name"
if anyone has wound up with "joke" custom ones outside the previous settings, gulag
sorry all, seems like one of the lemmy updates we rebased on removed our pronoun validation on the backend. ill take a look at it pretty soon, 0.19.4 is coming out soon so ill be checking this again once we rebase on top of that.
I would be for the patch, if were soliciting the opinion of someone who doesn't know anything about web dev magick
Thankfully this is a problem easily solved with some regex
Same TBH. Sometimes I just go on regexr and put in data to see what I can come up with.
none/use name I never liked, I'd much rather it default to @Ho_Chi_Chungus@hexbear.net idea of Gangster Spongebob
we should be allowed custom pronouns after a lengthy vetting process and a test on "Trans Liberation"
I looked for five minutes under my profile for the pronoun selection screen until I found it in settings. Not very intuitive, would like pronouns to be available at account creation. Set the default pronoun to cis/gender because it would be funny.
I know there are clients like Jerboa, are those guaranteed to support custom data fields that instances may add? Might be something one of those is doing but it'll never be enforceable for federated users as things are currently.
In this case Hexbear's web UI actually just puts your pronouns in your username (display name is the Lemmy term). All that has to be done is enforce that there are pronouns in your selected username in the server code
There is a difference between Username and Display Name. You can't "change" your username and it has different character requirements and is used for authentication. Display Name can be changed at any time using the Default UI and can be what ever you want and is not used for authentication.
Hexbear replaces the text field for Display Name with the pronouns drop down. It then combines your username with your pronouns and saves it in your display name field.
If you have API access you can update your display name to whatever you want because the UI is what enforces the pronouns not the server (as you identified).
The display name is used externally by other instances so it needs to remain compatible for federation. That way pronouns are displayed for users on other instances.
I'm not really sure if you can add validation to the field without breaking external users display names.
It's doesn't seem so difficult to me, we just have to check if local users have valid pronouns (valid in the sense of it's in a list that can be checked by a computer lol, not ideal but yeah) in their requested display name when they try to use the
save_user_settingsapi. According to makotech222 elsewhere in the thread we actually used to have validation like this but the code got lost in an update
There was another user I saw called GayBot without pronouns but they deleted their acct today...
There might be more I don't remember
I saw GayBot comment that there was another vegan struggle session and got excited to post in the trenches
but I think that was a ruse cause I didnt see any threads about it anywhere. devastatingThere is/was a thread in vegan about how to handle leftists that aren’t. Non vegan hexbears got banned because the comm has a vegans only rule. Some got mad.
Hexbear had a problem with some stupidpol types in its earlier days. It's one of the reasons downvotes were removed and among other things TC69 led the purges and some of the education that set site culture in a more positive direction.
Hexbear had a problem with some stupidpol types in its earlier days
Wow no kidding
Show
Hard to imagine this now
It was not overt, it was backhanded stuff with downvoting and concern trolling about the addition pronouns and whether people should be forced to assign them. This went on for some time until TC69-thought established a total purge after peering into voting habits and discovering certain people were consistently downvoting the trans topics and acting in bad faith. There were wreckers among us.
@TransComrade69@hexbear.net , her comments are still there she wasn’t banned or anything, just moved on.
Yeahh, this is why we need validation in the server code lmao
dastardly plot by some rapscallion to impersonate me (check their account)
I uphold TC69 thought
I understand.
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