Because vaccines don't stop the spread and offer limited protection against long covid. Are y'all not getting that regardless of your vaccination status, there is a limited amount of times you can catch a virus that attacks your immune system, your microcirculatory system, and all your organs?
Is long covid really that big of a deal for most people? I know exactly one person with a mild form of long-covid (sense of smell got fucked up) and I know a bunch of people that got it two or more times with no long term effects. I also only indirectly know of somebody dying from it.
Almost everybody I know that got vaxxed didn't really suffer too much from it. Also this year's wave is much smaller at least in my country, way less deaths than a year ago from now. My nurse friends aren't reporting any major surges in nearly a year.
Covid is nasty but I don't think it's going to be the end of us, I think a lot of people on this site are a bit too :doomer: about it. Honestly when it comes to pandemics we got fucking lucky, could have been a way nastier virus.
Looks like a low vaccination rate problem. In most articles experts are calling for more kids getting their boosters, which yeah I would completely agree with, boosters are cool and good and I would consider it a prerequisite for lifting strict zero-covid.
Again, how come Vietnam and Cuba don't have hundreds of thousands of deaths without having a strict zero-covid policy?
The article is paywalled, here's an archive link: https://web.archive.org/web/20221123125303/https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/23/vaccinated-people-now-make-up-majority-covid-deaths/
The article is fairly scant on details but it seems the point it's trying to make is get the updated booster because your old vaccine immunity evaporated, which uh yeah makes sense. It doesn't look like the vaccines got worse, just that people refuse to get their boosters.
Fifty-eight percent of coronavirus deaths in August were people who were vaccinated or boosted
If I put in the effort to find the research that shows that countless people with vaccines and boosters were killed and disabled, will it change your mind? Like I can do it, but I suspect that you're not going to budge.
I get that vaccines aren't miracle silver bullets and some people are gonna die regardless of whether they're vaccinated or not.
I still think it's just plain fucking unrealistic to keep zero-covid going for the long term. The world collectively (save for a few countries) fucked up with dealing with Covid and that's not just gonna change, all countries are going to have to find ways of living with it.
Vietnam did have a strict zero covid, now they have thousands dead. Cuba had their borders locked, now they also have thousands dead. In both cases we have no idea how many hav long covid; which is why our pediatric hospitals are packed with rsv cases, because a significant chunk of the US population is now immunocompromised. We can stop now. You're clearly on board with some number of social murder.
You’re clearly on board with some number of social murder.
Everybody is on board with some number of social murder. Otherwise you should also be for banning cigarettes, alcohol, cars, being fat etc. A lot of human activities and behaviors are potentially hazardous yet we indulge in them, I don't see how this is any different. People die from the flu too, why don't we have zero-flu policies?
Also it's not like I'm saying China should imitate the west, just that there is probably a more tolerable middle-ground.
You pretending that chinese people aren't gonna be pissed with policies like these in the long term is just plain idealism. There's literally a person from China in this thread saying they're fucking sick of it already.
Also looking at Cuba it doesn't look that bad, it seems they got through the worst of it like many other countries: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/cuba/
People die from the flu too, why don’t we have zero-flu policies?
Good question I’ve actually been asking that for years. During flu season we should 100,000% do screening tests for flu at peoples workplaces and schools and quarantine and isolate those who are sick. Also mandatory vaccines and masks in public places.
It would save thousands of lives yearly as well as save millions of dollars in “productivity” because people with the flu are bad at working, and also prevents cumulative years of human misery.
They lock down because they don't want millions to get sick at once, overflow the hospital and break the healthcare system. The flu doesn't overflow the hospital every year. Seem like there's still peoples still don't know the purpose of lock down. Just because yank load up body bags after body bags into truck and tell prisoners to dig grave, or Indian stand outside the hospital for oxygen and burn their body outside, doesn't mean China should go that route.
I love how people just keep strawmaning my position and thinking I want to let it rip throughout China as it did in the US even though I restatated again and again that the west isn't being strict enough. Covid policies aren't a single binary on-off switch Jesus fucking Christ.
Maybe we just have different ideas about how a ban on bing unhealthy would look like.
I’d like it to be helpful and free of cost or stigma, but certainly in the west it would be rounding everyone over a certain bmi up and depositing them in internment camps to perform manual labor until they meet whatever requirement.
Probably make the camps private, the product of that labor something that’s commodified and have a non-stop rolling reality tv show based in it.
The framing of “being fat” is bad because it doesn’t touch on why people are fat and only addresses their present state, but we can certainly look past that obvious part and assume in good faith the poster isn’t advocating institution of permanent krystal burger nacht with the gutstahpo beating you up and carting you off to fat camp brought to you by Carl’s Jr.
Otherwise you should also be for banning cigarettes, alcohol, cars, being fat etc
Despite the best efforts of those who make money off of them, all of these things are still significantly easier to avoid than the most infectious virus known to man.
Yes, long covid is that big a deal, and it gets worse every time you get it. And if it continues to spread uncontained everyone is going to get it over and over and over for the rest of your life, until everyone is so wracked with the burden of disease they can't function.
Because vaccines don't stop the spread and offer limited protection against long covid. Are y'all not getting that regardless of your vaccination status, there is a limited amount of times you can catch a virus that attacks your immune system, your microcirculatory system, and all your organs?
Is long covid really that big of a deal for most people? I know exactly one person with a mild form of long-covid (sense of smell got fucked up) and I know a bunch of people that got it two or more times with no long term effects. I also only indirectly know of somebody dying from it.
Almost everybody I know that got vaxxed didn't really suffer too much from it. Also this year's wave is much smaller at least in my country, way less deaths than a year ago from now. My nurse friends aren't reporting any major surges in nearly a year.
Covid is nasty but I don't think it's going to be the end of us, I think a lot of people on this site are a bit too :doomer: about it. Honestly when it comes to pandemics we got fucking lucky, could have been a way nastier virus.
Go to Google News and search Pediatric Hospitals.
Looks like a low vaccination rate problem. In most articles experts are calling for more kids getting their boosters, which yeah I would completely agree with, boosters are cool and good and I would consider it a prerequisite for lifting strict zero-covid.
Again, how come Vietnam and Cuba don't have hundreds of thousands of deaths without having a strict zero-covid policy?
Deaths of vaccinated people have surpassed non vaccinated deaths
I'm def pro vaccine, but vaccination is only one tool amongst many.
The article is paywalled, here's an archive link: https://web.archive.org/web/20221123125303/https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/23/vaccinated-people-now-make-up-majority-covid-deaths/
The article is fairly scant on details but it seems the point it's trying to make is get the updated booster because your old vaccine immunity evaporated, which uh yeah makes sense. It doesn't look like the vaccines got worse, just that people refuse to get their boosters.
If I put in the effort to find the research that shows that countless people with vaccines and boosters were killed and disabled, will it change your mind? Like I can do it, but I suspect that you're not going to budge.
I get that vaccines aren't miracle silver bullets and some people are gonna die regardless of whether they're vaccinated or not.
I still think it's just plain fucking unrealistic to keep zero-covid going for the long term. The world collectively (save for a few countries) fucked up with dealing with Covid and that's not just gonna change, all countries are going to have to find ways of living with it.
Better drugs are coming out. Getting covid in 2023 will be easy safer than in 2022.
Edit
reread that
Vietnam did have a strict zero covid, now they have thousands dead. Cuba had their borders locked, now they also have thousands dead. In both cases we have no idea how many hav long covid; which is why our pediatric hospitals are packed with rsv cases, because a significant chunk of the US population is now immunocompromised. We can stop now. You're clearly on board with some number of social murder.
Everybody is on board with some number of social murder. Otherwise you should also be for banning cigarettes, alcohol, cars, being fat etc. A lot of human activities and behaviors are potentially hazardous yet we indulge in them, I don't see how this is any different. People die from the flu too, why don't we have zero-flu policies?
Also it's not like I'm saying China should imitate the west, just that there is probably a more tolerable middle-ground.
You pretending that chinese people aren't gonna be pissed with policies like these in the long term is just plain idealism. There's literally a person from China in this thread saying they're fucking sick of it already.
Also looking at Cuba it doesn't look that bad, it seems they got through the worst of it like many other countries: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/cuba/
Good question I’ve actually been asking that for years. During flu season we should 100,000% do screening tests for flu at peoples workplaces and schools and quarantine and isolate those who are sick. Also mandatory vaccines and masks in public places.
It would save thousands of lives yearly as well as save millions of dollars in “productivity” because people with the flu are bad at working, and also prevents cumulative years of human misery.
Sure I agree. I just don't think weeks long flu lockdowns forever would be a good idea.
Sure, but I’d much rather be told I have to quarantine for a week for flu exposure than be out for a week for having the fucking flu
And I’d much rather the guy who came into work next door with the flu gets told to quarantine for a week than me getting the flu from the cashier.
They lock down because they don't want millions to get sick at once, overflow the hospital and break the healthcare system. The flu doesn't overflow the hospital every year. Seem like there's still peoples still don't know the purpose of lock down. Just because yank load up body bags after body bags into truck and tell prisoners to dig grave, or Indian stand outside the hospital for oxygen and burn their body outside, doesn't mean China should go that route.
Dude, I'm done. Go :LIB: at someone else, please.
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
I love how people just keep strawmaning my position and thinking I want to let it rip throughout China as it did in the US even though I restatated again and again that the west isn't being strict enough. Covid policies aren't a single binary on-off switch Jesus fucking Christ.
I guess Cuba and Vietnam are liberal too, huh?
deleted by creator
Enjoy your brain damage.
Holy fuck, no
That person is 100% right.
Framing the idea that letting people eat without top down nutritionist enforcement is social murder? Jesus I hope that's a minority opinion.
Maybe we just have different ideas about how a ban on bing unhealthy would look like.
I’d like it to be helpful and free of cost or stigma, but certainly in the west it would be rounding everyone over a certain bmi up and depositing them in internment camps to perform manual labor until they meet whatever requirement.
Probably make the camps private, the product of that labor something that’s commodified and have a non-stop rolling reality tv show based in it.
The framing of “being fat” is bad because it doesn’t touch on why people are fat and only addresses their present state, but we can certainly look past that obvious part and assume in good faith the poster isn’t advocating institution of permanent krystal burger nacht with the gutstahpo beating you up and carting you off to fat camp brought to you by Carl’s Jr.
Despite the best efforts of those who make money off of them, all of these things are still significantly easier to avoid than the most infectious virus known to man.
Yes, long covid is that big a deal, and it gets worse every time you get it. And if it continues to spread uncontained everyone is going to get it over and over and over for the rest of your life, until everyone is so wracked with the burden of disease they can't function.