What's wrong with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?

Imperialism

Domestic issues

  • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]
    ·
    2 years ago

    Why does this site care so much about AOC? Can you make a list like this for like, Brian Fitzpatrick (R-PA)? How about Blake Moore (D-UT)? Robert "Bobby" Scott (D-VA)? Joe Wilson (R-SC)?

    I don't get the obsession. INB4 I get accused of supporting her - no, she's just a random congressperson and because of that I don't understand why anyone gives a shit, unless you live in her district.

    • happybadger [he/him]
      ·
      2 years ago

      She sells herself as a socialist and ran on DSA backing. Did any of the others? None of them are relevant to me unless they're claiming to be on the left.

        • happybadger [he/him]
          ·
          2 years ago

          I don't understand the question. Why wouldn't it be? If someone says they're in your camp, it's important to know if they actually are or not. What she does will impact the reputation of every other socialist running for office by association. I don't want to be associated with judas goat liberals.

                • happybadger [he/him]
                  ·
                  2 years ago

                  That's a contender for one of the dumbest takes I've seen on this site. Where are the threads criticising generic democrats and republicans? Every fucking thread mentioning either. Where's your thread calling out those specific goobers if they have any relevance whatsoever to the left? If you don't want your particular favourite liberal being called out, fuck off to /r/politics where you can have your personality cult and pretend it's meaningful.

                  • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]
                    ·
                    2 years ago

                    Hexbear tell the difference between "I don't give a shit about AOC" and "I love AOC" challenge (impossible)

                    Let me clear make my position on AOC absolutely clear: I have not and never intend to vote for her, she is #notmycongressperson

            • Kumikommunism [they/them]
              ·
              2 years ago

              AOC needs to be "the biggest obstacle to socialism" in order to criticize her, but you named 3 random congresspeople instead?

              What are you even trying to say?

              • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]
                ·
                2 years ago

                What are you even trying to say?

                Not that, since I didn't say anything like that.

                I have no problem with criticizing AOC. I have a problem with people obsessing over her, acting like she's way more important than she is, and giving her disproportionate attention

                • Kumikommunism [they/them]
                  ·
                  2 years ago

                  But people already explained that to you and you mysteriously ignored those comments, hmmmmm...

                  You don't have a point to make and just like arguing about nothing.

    • bbnh69420 [she/her, they/them]
      ·
      2 years ago

      Because none of those people claim to be socialist and, in turn, socialists don’t feel compelled to defend every compromise and fuck up from every senator. The rule is imperial capitalism, and this list is attempting to show there aren’t exceptions

    • Tachanka [comrade/them]
      hexagon
      ·
      edit-2
      2 years ago

      Good question. I think it's for a few reasons:

      1. A lot of people on this site were demsocs when she got elected and were enthusiastic about seeing a self-identifying socialist make it into congress. Then the flaws began to show.

      2. The American right pretends she's the 2nd coming of Lenin so pushing back against that narrative by demonstrating that she's yet another bourgeois reformist masquerading as a socialist is important, because she should not ever be the face of American socialism.

      Can you make a list like this for like, Brian Fitzpatrick (R-PA)? How about Blake Moore (D-UT)? Robert “Bobby” Scott (D-VA)? Joe Wilson (R-SC)?

      Nobody to the was ever convinced these people had any potential to do anything good.

      she’s just a random congressperson

      See point 1 and 2

      I don’t understand why anyone gives a shit, unless you live in her district.

      nationally she's been made into the "face of socialism" by the corporate media. Now her vote against the rail strike will get to be paraded around by the right as "proof" that the "socialists" aren't allies of the working class.

      • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Nobody to the was ever convinced these people had any potential to do anything good.

        Really? Because a lot of people voted for them, otherwise they wouldn't have gotten elected. Maybe nobody on this site was convinced of that, but I think it's worth remembering that 99% of politicians who get elected in the US don't even make a pretense of being socialists. It seems to me that we should devote our time to addressing the bigger problem, and the bigger group. If we replaced every succdem with a committed M-L, it still wouldn't have much of an effect. Succdems wield so little power that it doesn't seem worthwhile to care about them.

        • Tachanka [comrade/them]
          hexagon
          ·
          edit-2
          2 years ago

          Really? Because a lot of people voted for them, otherwise they wouldn’t have gotten elected. Maybe nobody on this site was convinced of that

          well this site is who you were talking to when you asked. remember your own question? you asked the following:

          Why does this site care so much about AOC?

          I can't answer for anyone else.


          I think it’s worth remembering that 99% of politicians who get elected in the US don’t even make a pretense of being socialists.

          Right. And when those politicians betray the working class, it's business as usual. When some "socialist" politician betrays the working class (or supports bombing Yugoslavia like Bernie Sanders did in the 90s), it is under the banner of socialism, and the right gets to point to AOC and say "see, the socialists don't actually care about you!" AOC carrying around the label "socialist" and then being a basic bourgeois reformist ends up funcitoning as a propaganda victory for the right.

          . It seems to me that we should devote our time to addressing the bigger problem, and the bigger group. If we replaced every succdem with a committed M-L, it still wouldn’t have much of an effect. Succdems wield so little power that it doesn’t seem worthwhile to care about them.

          we can walk and chew gum at the same time.

          • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]
            ·
            2 years ago

            well this site is who you were talking to when you asked

            Then they need to get over it. Like, sorry the succdem let you down, learn from it and move on. I don't really care that your ex let you down.

            When some “socialist” politician betrays the working class (or supports bombing Yugoslavia like Bernie Sanders did in the 90s), it is under the banner of socialism, and the right gets to point to AOC and say “see, the socialists don’t actually care about you!”

            I've never heard a chud bring up Yugoslavia. Generally the bigger propaganda thrust is like, "Gommunism no food 11 gozillion dead," or whatever. Imo, just being like, "Who's AOC?" and pointing out the right's disproportionate obsession with her is an adequate response.

            • Tachanka [comrade/them]
              hexagon
              ·
              edit-2
              2 years ago

              Then they need to get over it. Like, sorry the succdem let you down, learn from it and move on. I don’t really care that your ex let you down.

              you need to get over it. sorry hexbear let you down, learn from it move on, I don't really care that the website annoyed you by talking about your ex

              (see how empty that is?)

              • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]
                ·
                2 years ago

                Lol. Hexbear is obsessing over a tiny, insignificant faction in US politics because of, according to you, feeling betrayed by a succdem. I'm arguing that we shouldn't give so much weight to that faction because it's not strategically important. These aren't equivalent.

                • Tachanka [comrade/them]
                  hexagon
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  2 years ago

                  I've already explained that nobody is "obsessed." Simply saying that the one faction in US politics that claims to be socialist and actually has elected seats in the house is behaving bourgeois and running the name of socialism through the mud. If you aren't willing to engage with that then I don't know what to tell you. Have a nice evening. I won't be wasting any more of my time arguing with you about this. We are perfectly capable of criticizing people other than AOC and usually do! It's just that she's done something very anti-labor over the past 24 hours so it's in the news.

                  PS: Pretending people are "obsessed" with AOC when people are rightly criticizing her for doing something anti-labor while pretending to be socialist in the last 24 hours is pretty absurd btw. Yes. The succdem disappointed us. Yes we're going to talk about it. Complaining about people "talking about AOC too much" is still talking about AOC, so welcome aboard.

    • betelgeuse [comrade/them]
      ·
      2 years ago

      Because people keep trying to say that supporting AOC, which means anything from complimenting her to voting for her and her endorsements, helps our cause. That's literally what the person was saying in 500 post thread we had last night. That we need to support as many AOCs as possible in order to make things easier for ourselves to do socialism.

      When people, rightfully, criticize that idea, we get people asking why we're so obsessed and of course she can't do anything, we shouldn't expect her to. You're not a supporter of her but you must understand that the topic didn't just pop up out of thin air.

      And it's good/cool to dunk on her when she fails at being a good progressive. Because nobody should think that posting positively about a candidate leads to helping socialism. For one, it doesn't even help AOC because nobody cares what we think of her. Two, helping AOC doesn't lead to socialism. It's pretty basic stuff.

      • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Do we really need 500 comments dunking on like the one person on this site who actually likes her? It just seems disproportionate to me, and I feel like people just get super :frothingfash: over the prospect that someone somewhere might like her. I don't like her and I haven't said anything positive about her, I just called her irrelevant, and I have a bunch of people accusing me of liking her, just as what happened during the Force the Vote idiocy.

    • VenetianMask [any]
      ·
      edit-2
      2 years ago

      In group aesthetics

      basically a meme at this point

      • Tachanka [comrade/them]
        hexagon
        ·
        edit-2
        2 years ago

        it's not "in group aesthetics"

        1. A lot of people on this site were demsocs when she got elected and were enthusiastic about seeing a self-identifying socialist make it into congress. Then the flaws began to show.

        2. The American right pretends she's the 2nd coming of Lenin so pushing back against that narrative by demonstrating that she's yet another bourgeois reformist masquerading as a socialist is important, because she should not ever be the face of American socialism, given her pro-imperialism and anti-worker track record

      • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]
        ·
        2 years ago

        I still remember when Hexbear was obsessed with Horse The Vote to the point that "Who gives a shit, log off" was met with "How dare you stan AOC :wojak-nooo:"

        At least she's actually an elected official. Imagine if AOC, Vaush, and Haz all died in a plane crash, what would any of us do with ourselves?

        Don't worry, y'all, I promise I have never and will never cast a vote for AOC (I'm not from New York).

        • LeninsBeard [he/him]
          ·
          2 years ago

          Imagine if AOC, Vaush, and Haz all died in a plane crash, what would any of us do with ourselves?

          The Day The Dunk Tank Died

    • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]
      ·
      2 years ago

      AOC struggle sessions are a Psy-op by New Yorkers trying to make me care about New York shit. Fuck all y'all, I will never eat a Bodega, I will never ride in a Bodega, and most importantly, I will never learn what a Bodega is.