Permanently Deleted

  • Tankiedesantski [he/him]
    ·
    2 years ago

    Alright Tolkien stans, whose turn is it to write the two thousand word essay on how the Fash repeatedly naming shit after Tolkien works is just a coincidence?

    • BilboBaggins [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      2 years ago

      OK here we go...

      In the 60s and 70s, LotR was way more closely associated with hippies than anything on the right. When I was a kid in the 80s and 90s, religious right wingers would lump it in with the satanic panic (I wasn't allowed to read it). All this fashy love for LotR is after the movies came out, and I don't think it's a coincidence.

      I bet you dollars to donuts the fash who like LotR don't even read the books. The movies - in particular the last 2 - overly emphasize the "WE MUST DEFEND THE WEST FROM THE EVIL HORDES" aspect. I'm not saying that's not there in the books but the movies over-emphasize it quite a bit. I actually rewatched the trilogy for the first time in a decade recently and was surprised how uncomfortable the last 2 movies made me. The movies do feel like they're coded with fash dogwhistles in a way the books are not. I would say the "vibe" of the first movie is more aligned with all 3 books way better than the last 2 movies are.

      I also thinks it's as simple as the story is very "European" and so the "RETVRN TO TRADITION" crowd loves it just for that aspect alone, especially the movies.

      But also as Ulysses said, I think there are aspects of the story like the elves that I don't think Tolkien had any ill intent, but is definitely easy for fascists to dovetail into their own worldview.

      I understand this is a pretty weak defense but I think it's important to recognize before the movies came out the books had a very broad base of fans and the notion that it was the darling of the right (Meloni excluded I guess) isn't really accurate. At the same time I can acknowledge even the books have problematic aspects.

      I actually plan on re-reading the trilogy this winter for the first time as a leftist. I'm curious to see how I'll feel about it then.

      • keepcarrot [she/her]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Interesting

        In my experience (which is limited) with fantasy, fash generally don't like elves even if they are very ubermensh. Fash generally go for rugged "humanity fuck yeah" stubble heroes.

        • doublepepperoni [none/use name]
          ·
          edit-2
          2 years ago

          The elves are immortal, ancient and powerful, yes, but they are also on their way out. Their part in the story is done. They aren't as dynamic as humans, and their long lifespans tend to make them melancholic and fatalistic. The fash see themselves reflected more in the plucky upstart humans. Of all the things in Tolkien they probably see themselves as Numenoreans

          Even in most fantasy stuff derived from Tolkien elves are depicted as a diminished or even straight up fallen race who are depicted as haughty, arrogant or just racist towards everyone else

          • keepcarrot [she/her]
            ·
            2 years ago

            I think part of it is because elves are seen as effeminate or gay.

            • doublepepperoni [none/use name]
              ·
              edit-2
              2 years ago

              The Hobbit movies leaned into this too

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVQtzBTV76Y

              I think this was supposed to be right after the scene where the Dwarves are grossed out by the Elves eating nothing but greens

    • UlyssesT
      hexagon
      ·
      edit-2
      18 days ago

      deleted by creator

      • kkitsuragisleftnut [he/him]
        ·
        2 years ago

        The way I always interpreted it is that the elves, being bound to the planet as they are, were "beautiful" because of their connection to Arda. That they basically represent the beauty of nature and the planet and all that entails as opposed to the technology driven "manufactured" orcs. While Men were Eru Illuvatar's favored people and thus not bound to Arda and that's why they're mundane.

      • doublepepperoni [none/use name]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Yeah, but the elves aren't the master race, it's humans (or rather Men as Tolkien would've put it I guess) who are God's special pet project

        • UlyssesT
          hexagon
          ·
          edit-2
          18 days ago

          deleted by creator

          • doublepepperoni [none/use name]
            ·
            edit-2
            2 years ago

            It's supposed to be one of those things where being pretty and immortal actually makes them less special than humans. I think the Numenoreans are much better parallel for fash conceptions of race

            • UlyssesT
              hexagon
              ·
              edit-2
              18 days ago

              deleted by creator

      • Tankiedesantski [he/him]
        ·
        2 years ago

        I can totally respect enjoying a treat while recognizing that it's flawed and being able to criticize it from the left.

        It's just that more than once I've seen leftists die on the hill of Tolkien being "apolitical" and that the Fash are skewing his message.

        • UlyssesT
          hexagon
          ·
          edit-2
          18 days ago

          deleted by creator

    • Speaker [e/em/eir]
      ·
      2 years ago

      Anduril literally means "Flame of the West". Case closed.