Probably just dysphoric enough to justify a spoiler tag, just in case
So. Unlike everyone else in this thread, I'm in an annoying questioning state where I'm not about transitioning (mtf) just yet. There's still a lot about my gender identity that I'm just not sure about.
I feel like I'm not married to the term "man", certainly not as much as a lot of men seem to be. Yet, when I see things online attacking "men" in general in a way that I see as being a little bit unfair, it's hard not to internalize that. So, for example, a recent meme about men being more dangerous than bears. It's not that I don't understand the reasoning behind it or that I'm "offended" by it exactly. But it's hard not to be a little sad at the fact that, insofar as I am perceived as male, I am by default perceived as an unlovable and dangerous subhuman monster. I could take this as evidence that I don't want to be a man and that I should transition, but is "not wanting to be a man" enough to pull the trigger on a medical transition? It feels like I should be running TOWARDS something I want, not just AWAY from something I hate.
There are a lot of boxes on the "Incel" checklist that describe me, e.g. loneliness, lack of deep friendships or romantic partnerships, spending far too much time on the internet. When I read advice for guys in this kind of situation, it tends to be very similar, obvious-but-annoying-and-difficult things, e.g. taking care of your health, introspection, journaling, meditation, finding social hobbies, etc. When I read this lists, I get a bit annoyed and exhausted. And yet, it becomes a bit more bearable if I think of myself as something other than a man, e.g. "Get a hobby" feels like scolding cliche self-help advice, yet "Get a hobby, but trans" feels less bad for some weird unexplainable reason (even if I don't actually do anything different).
A lot of discussions I can find about trans identity talk, explicitly or implicitly, about how a person feels "inside", e.g. what gender do they feel like they are? I don't know if I feel like anything in particular. When I'm filling out forms and it has the option, I usually answer "nonbinary" or something similar. I was playing an online game where you can customize your appearance, and the default avatar was a featureless, not particularly gendered, cute looking cartoon person. I tried making it look like how I actually look, but then I realized, "Wait, I kind of prefer the featureless androgynous humanoid cartoon -- that's closer to what I actually feel like". If you asked me how I imagine myself inside, the honest and silly answer is that I feel like a "Scrimblo Bimblo"-type genderless cartoon/video game character. I'm not 100% sure if "woman" is the right label for me, but I'm not totally against it either -- it just feels odd. I will say, when I see happy women, either alone or in relationships, I feel a tinge of envy, and that strikes me as a sign that I prefer the idea of being a woman more than the idea of being a man. I keep thinking to myself "I can't transition because I'd be an ugly woman", which I am well aware is a classic thing for trans women to tell themselves before transitioning. The prospect of medically transitioning and still identifying as nonbinary is... frightening, but fear seems like a bad reason not to do it.
At this point, I've been ruminating on this so long that it feels like I'm being annoying and indecisive, like I want you to make the decision for me. I realize that's a silly thing to want (but, like, could you? Because that would be GREAT!) so perhaps the best I can hope for is that writing this is a useful exercise for me.
But it's hard not to be a little sad at the fact that, insofar as I am perceived as male, I am by default perceived as an unlovable and dangerous subhuman monster
That's not what the meme is about or saying lol, it's pointing out the fact that to most women, the average man is probably more dangerous than a bear. Patriarchal violence. I do think the meme is a bit un-nuanced maybe, like a product of liberal "feminism", but it makes a good point.
but is "not wanting to be a man" enough to pull the trigger on a medical transition? It feels like I should be running TOWARDS something I want, not just AWAY from something I hate.
Sure, why not? You don't have to do anything super drastic about it either. Honestly early in my transition, my identity was mostly defined by the fact that I'd die on testosterone. I did not want that, I did not want to be a man. I didn't immediately become a woman as a result, either.
Also if "get a hobby, but trans" feels better than man-advice to you, well =)
If you asked me how I imagine myself inside, the honest and silly answer is that I feel like a "Scrimblo Bimblo"-type genderless cartoon/video game character.
Sounds valid as fuck to me, perhaps you are some nifty variety of nonbinary or grayish/agender femme? Many cool possibilities!! It does seem to me like, above all else "man" is not for you ❤
It kinda bugs me that the transition/gender discussion is so binary, I think it's causing a lot of trouble for you.
It kinda bugs me that the transition/gender discussion is so binary, I think it's causing a lot of trouble for you.
Probably. But I also feel a bit paralyzed by the sheer variety of options available. I'm fortunate to live in what might be one of the least transphobic parts of the world, where medical transition is (at least partly) covered by public health care, and I'm failing to take advantage of it as a result of my own fear.
Y'know, choice paralysis regarding gender is kinda funny honestly c: But also take your time you know, the priority should be your comfort, in all respects.
I was playing an online game where you can customize your appearance, and the default avatar was a featureless, not particularly gendered, cute looking cartoon person. I tried making it look like how I actually look, but then I realized, “Wait, I kind of prefer the featureless androgynous humanoid cartoon – that’s closer to what I actually feel like”. If you asked me how I imagine myself inside, the honest and silly answer is that I feel like a “Scrimblo Bimblo”-type genderless cartoon/video game character.
Then go for that if you want to? You aren't alone. Things like nullification surgeries are a thing people get (seen multiple people on the agender subreddit mention it), for example of evidence of the demand.
I’m not 100% sure if “woman” is the right label for me, but I’m not totally against it either – it just feels odd.
I think a lot of people weird weird using that label when their body is so masculine. I'm open to the possibility that I'd start accepting that label if people started gendering me that way, but currently I'm not really interest in the label.
The prospect of medically transitioning and still identifying as nonbinary is… frightening, but fear seems like a bad reason not to do it.
Was something I dealt with as well. Made me feel like a bit of an imposter during my HRT appointment. I intend to come out to my immediate family (already out to my brother and cousin) before HRT starts to have significant effects, but I'm not really sure what I'm coming out as. So I plan to just come out as "someone taking HRT".
Happy Early May Day!
Probably just dysphoric enough to justify a spoiler tag, just in case
So. Unlike everyone else in this thread, I'm in an annoying questioning state where I'm not about transitioning (mtf) just yet. There's still a lot about my gender identity that I'm just not sure about.
I feel like I'm not married to the term "man", certainly not as much as a lot of men seem to be. Yet, when I see things online attacking "men" in general in a way that I see as being a little bit unfair, it's hard not to internalize that. So, for example, a recent meme about men being more dangerous than bears. It's not that I don't understand the reasoning behind it or that I'm "offended" by it exactly. But it's hard not to be a little sad at the fact that, insofar as I am perceived as male, I am by default perceived as an unlovable and dangerous subhuman monster. I could take this as evidence that I don't want to be a man and that I should transition, but is "not wanting to be a man" enough to pull the trigger on a medical transition? It feels like I should be running TOWARDS something I want, not just AWAY from something I hate.
There are a lot of boxes on the "Incel" checklist that describe me, e.g. loneliness, lack of deep friendships or romantic partnerships, spending far too much time on the internet. When I read advice for guys in this kind of situation, it tends to be very similar, obvious-but-annoying-and-difficult things, e.g. taking care of your health, introspection, journaling, meditation, finding social hobbies, etc. When I read this lists, I get a bit annoyed and exhausted. And yet, it becomes a bit more bearable if I think of myself as something other than a man, e.g. "Get a hobby" feels like scolding cliche self-help advice, yet "Get a hobby, but trans" feels less bad for some weird unexplainable reason (even if I don't actually do anything different).
A lot of discussions I can find about trans identity talk, explicitly or implicitly, about how a person feels "inside", e.g. what gender do they feel like they are? I don't know if I feel like anything in particular. When I'm filling out forms and it has the option, I usually answer "nonbinary" or something similar. I was playing an online game where you can customize your appearance, and the default avatar was a featureless, not particularly gendered, cute looking cartoon person. I tried making it look like how I actually look, but then I realized, "Wait, I kind of prefer the featureless androgynous humanoid cartoon -- that's closer to what I actually feel like". If you asked me how I imagine myself inside, the honest and silly answer is that I feel like a "Scrimblo Bimblo"-type genderless cartoon/video game character. I'm not 100% sure if "woman" is the right label for me, but I'm not totally against it either -- it just feels odd. I will say, when I see happy women, either alone or in relationships, I feel a tinge of envy, and that strikes me as a sign that I prefer the idea of being a woman more than the idea of being a man. I keep thinking to myself "I can't transition because I'd be an ugly woman", which I am well aware is a classic thing for trans women to tell themselves before transitioning. The prospect of medically transitioning and still identifying as nonbinary is... frightening, but fear seems like a bad reason not to do it.
At this point, I've been ruminating on this so long that it feels like I'm being annoying and indecisive, like I want you to make the decision for me. I realize that's a silly thing to want (but, like, could you? Because that would be GREAT!) so perhaps the best I can hope for is that writing this is a useful exercise for me.
boop
That's not what the meme is about or saying lol, it's pointing out the fact that to most women, the average man is probably more dangerous than a bear. Patriarchal violence. I do think the meme is a bit un-nuanced maybe, like a product of liberal "feminism", but it makes a good point.
Sure, why not? You don't have to do anything super drastic about it either. Honestly early in my transition, my identity was mostly defined by the fact that I'd die on testosterone. I did not want that, I did not want to be a man. I didn't immediately become a woman as a result, either.
Also if "get a hobby, but trans" feels better than man-advice to you, well =)
Sounds valid as fuck to me, perhaps you are some nifty variety of nonbinary or grayish/agender femme? Many cool possibilities!! It does seem to me like, above all else "man" is not for you ❤
It kinda bugs me that the transition/gender discussion is so binary, I think it's causing a lot of trouble for you.
spoiler
Probably. But I also feel a bit paralyzed by the sheer variety of options available. I'm fortunate to live in what might be one of the least transphobic parts of the world, where medical transition is (at least partly) covered by public health care, and I'm failing to take advantage of it as a result of my own fear.
spoiler
Y'know, choice paralysis regarding gender is kinda funny honestly c: But also take your time you know, the priority should be your comfort, in all respects.
spoiler
Then go for that if you want to? You aren't alone. Things like nullification surgeries are a thing people get (seen multiple people on the agender subreddit mention it), for example of evidence of the demand.
I think a lot of people weird weird using that label when their body is so masculine. I'm open to the possibility that I'd start accepting that label if people started gendering me that way, but currently I'm not really interest in the label.
Was something I dealt with as well. Made me feel like a bit of an imposter during my HRT appointment. I intend to come out to my immediate family (already out to my brother and cousin) before HRT starts to have significant effects, but I'm not really sure what I'm coming out as. So I plan to just come out as "someone taking HRT".