• Dimmer06 [he/him,comrade/them]
    ·
    2 years ago

    idk if this is a vindication of FTV, but I think for the left to make something of this strategy it would have to be tied to some movement demands and it probably wouldn't result in them actually coming to fruition, but it would galvanize the movement. If a major union were to come up with demands for instance it might work.

    • edge [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      2 years ago

      Forcing the vote on M4A wasn't really a good idea, it wouldn't have done much. But the using their marginal power part absolutely was. What they should have done is oust Pelosi or at least get rid of PAYGO.

      • diego_maradona [none/use name, any]
        ·
        2 years ago

        lol it was a great idea. detrators at the time said we would be far closer to getting m4a if we didn't. Feels close now, doesn't it? /s

        • ElChapoDeChapo [he/him, comrade/them]
          ·
          edit-2
          2 years ago

          Honestly whether it would've worked or not doesn't really matter to me, we need actual left wing politicianswho are willing to fight the establishment tooth and nail regardless of the odds

          Even if they can't win, I don't want to see them go down without a fight

          • Vncredleader
            ·
            edit-2
            2 years ago

            This. Winning is never going to happen, you're goal is voting no is not to fucking decide policy, it is to stand as a constant. If it is useless then why not do it? Unless one still accepts electoralism. Per Luxemburg

            In principle – as everyone is familiar with our programme knows – we are against all militarism and protective tariffs. Does it follow from this that our representative in the Reichstag must oppose all debate on bills concerning these matters with an abrupt and blunt no? Absolutely not, for this would be an attitude befitting a small sect and not a great mass party. Our representatives must investigate each individual bill; they must consider the arguments and they must judge and debate on the basis if the existing concrete relationship, of the existing economic and political situations, and not of a lifeless and abstract principle. The result, however, must and will be – if we have assessed correctly the existing relationship and the people’s interest – no. Our solution is: not a man and not a penny for this system! But, given the present social order, there can be no system which would not be this very system. Each time tariffs are increased we say that we see no reason for agreeing to the tariff in the present situation, but for us there can be no situation in which we could reach a different position. Only in this way can our practical struggle become what it must be: the realization of our basic principles in the process of social life and the embodiment of our general principles in practical, everyday action...

            The assumption that one can achieve the greatest number of successes by making concessions rests on a complete error. Here, as in all great matters, the most cunning persons are not the most intelligent. Bismarck once told a bourgeois opposition party: ‘You will deprive yourselves of any practical influences if you always and as a matter of course say no.’ The old boy was then, as so often, more intelligent than is Pappenheimer.[A] Indeed, a bourgeois party, that is, a party which says yes to the existing order as a whole, but which will say no to the day-to-day consequences of this order, is a hybrid, an artificial creation, which is neither fish nor flash nor fowl. We who oppose the entire present order see things quite differently. In our no, in our intransigent attitude, lies our whole strength. It is this attitude that earns us the fear and respect of the enemy and the trust and support of the people.

            Precisely because we do not yield one inch from our position, we force the government and the bourgeois parties to concede to us the few immediate successes that can be gained. But if we begin to chase after what is ‘possible’ according to the principles of opportunism, unconcerned with our own principles, and by means of statesmanlike barter, then we will soon find ourselves in the same situation as the hunter who has not only failed to stay the deer but has also lost his gun in the process

            We do not shudder at the foreign terms, opportunism and the art of the possible, as Heine believes; we shudder only when they are ‘Germanized’ into our party practice. Let them remain foreign words for us. And, if occasion arises, let our comrades shun the role of interpreter.

            I think that point that I bolded is the most significant. That NO is a weapon in and of itself

          • TerminalEncounter [she/her]
            ·
            2 years ago

            Part of it was explaining why it wouldn't work and who the enemies were. But would the media actually carry those messages even if the Squd said it during the roll call vote for speaker?

      • Dimmer06 [he/him,comrade/them]
        ·
        edit-2
        2 years ago

        Did they have the proportions to oust Pelosi? I was under the impression that they didn't. Getting rid of PAYGO would have been good though.

        • edge [he/him]
          ·
          2 years ago

          They had enough to block the speakership vote the way these Republicans did. A marginally better speaker (Barbara Lee maybe) would have been a good demand.