eh, i'm used to it
i got it in the neck in the "ttrpg pet peeves" thread when i said i don't like playing with or dming for power gamers :shrug-outta-hecks:
That's the good thing about Shadowrun: basic not-even-min-maxing optimization gets dicepools close to 20 (up to 30 for soak tests), while the most absurd powergaming only gets mid 20s pools for most things, and that's it, it never goes higher because the investment required to improve further is basically unattainable. Like it's so generous that with only a couple of exceptions any concept character can be made viable with minimal investment, even if the concept requires wasting a ton of resources on something silly. It's not like D&D where everyone starts out ludicrously weak and then scales weirdly with tons of trap options or bad choices and a few random broken interactions between splat book prestige classes, or where characters can be permanently fucked by bad RNG if they're rolling for stats instead of using fixed arrays or point buy.
I one managed to roll 56 dice (before crits) on a single spell. But it was some ability that let you use life to add power to your spells and I killed my character doing it so my party could escape.
I think some of the older editions allowed for higher dicepools like that, yeah. 5e mostly tightened it down, though an edgelord build can unsustainably push into the 30s if paired with strong enough minmaxing and with lucky exploding crits could theoretically get up into the 40s.
Yeah that was 1e and it still took my whole life pool to pull it off.
I miss shadow run but I don't miss adding all those dice. Do new additions make it easier? I'm sure it would be easy on VTT but I don't think any of them have great support for it.
Do new additions make it easier? I’m sure it would be easy on VTT but I don’t think any of them have great support for it.
I always just used chummer's built in dice roller or a discord bot. I think roll20 has full shadowrun 5e integration but I hate its interface so much that I stopped using it and would just use a discord channel with occasionally posted reference material instead.
New editions are so poorly written that most people who are fans of Shadowrun don't recommend playing them. I haven't checked out 6e, but 5e's layout was abysmal. Stuff like sections of rules that frequently reference other rules that were 30+ pages apart for no reason, and lots of links to the index were wrong.
When I ran Shadowrun for around 1-2 years a while ago, we gradually built up a houserule document that ended up being over 30 pages long.
yeah, i get that for some people scouring a bunch of splatbooks for cool stuff and building out a complete powerhouse is half the fun.
But when Korgoth the Destroyer is throwing 5d8s at level 2 and can 1 round things well above their CR, Dave the Elf with his slightly better than normal stats kinda has nothing to do while they turn everything into marinara sauce
fair, though even if they fit in, having one character that's significantly better at combat to the point that the rest of the party might as well not be there is... kinda boring to play with in a standard DnD style game with it's focus on fighting
in games with more of a focus on rp, it's more tolerable
yeah, when i'm dming my own games i focus way more on the rp
the extreme of it is when i dm for my girlfriend, we usually go 2 or 3 sessions without a single combat encounter lol, helped by our rampant system hopping
There's a difference between memes and propaganda. virgin/chad, and the "yes" guy are literally explicit propaganda. Even when they're stuff I agree with it, they're not funny. They can make you feel good, but they are objectively not funny.
Prior to 2015 or so, memes were not usually this explicitly propagandistic and were made to be legitimately funny.
If you're used to this era of memes, then some of the "memes" of the late 2010s era will seem annoying and dumb.
Basically, chuds have combined elements of meme culture into propaganda, and zoomers as well as undiscriminating millennials, still call these things "memes" because they resemble them on the surface.
well at that point you can call anything a meme (which it technically would be)
Fine, these are "propaganda memes", and the ones before were not, or at least were much less so. Explicit propaganda isn't that funny to me, nor to many others. The question was "what meme do you not like" and they answered it
In the Dawkins sense, yes, correct, they're all memes, and as morally and politically neutral as an empty cup. They carry a message. It could be some racist bullshit, or it can be :wojak-nooo: CONTROLLERCELS MALDING OVER ALPHA CHAD KEYBOARD AND MOUSE USERS :gigachad:
Not that some messages don't have a preferred means of delivery. Like, the empty cup can still have a swastika on it. But I don't feel that the virgin/chad is that. It's just so inherently silly that nobody but a fucking moron could use it completely unironically.
(Also just to be obnoxiously pedantic "propaganda" technically refers to anything created with the purpose of dissemination so yes memes are propaganda and propaganda is memes :very-smart: )
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Exactly, it's like whining about people drawing dicks on things, which is a thing human beings have just always done
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eh, i'm used to it
i got it in the neck in the "ttrpg pet peeves" thread when i said i don't like playing with or dming for power gamers :shrug-outta-hecks:
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about 3 months ago i think
kinda stuck in my head because of how bizarrely defensive people got about it
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That's the good thing about Shadowrun: basic not-even-min-maxing optimization gets dicepools close to 20 (up to 30 for soak tests), while the most absurd powergaming only gets mid 20s pools for most things, and that's it, it never goes higher because the investment required to improve further is basically unattainable. Like it's so generous that with only a couple of exceptions any concept character can be made viable with minimal investment, even if the concept requires wasting a ton of resources on something silly. It's not like D&D where everyone starts out ludicrously weak and then scales weirdly with tons of trap options or bad choices and a few random broken interactions between splat book prestige classes, or where characters can be permanently fucked by bad RNG if they're rolling for stats instead of using fixed arrays or point buy.
I one managed to roll 56 dice (before crits) on a single spell. But it was some ability that let you use life to add power to your spells and I killed my character doing it so my party could escape.
I think some of the older editions allowed for higher dicepools like that, yeah. 5e mostly tightened it down, though an edgelord build can unsustainably push into the 30s if paired with strong enough minmaxing and with lucky exploding crits could theoretically get up into the 40s.
Yeah that was 1e and it still took my whole life pool to pull it off.
I miss shadow run but I don't miss adding all those dice. Do new additions make it easier? I'm sure it would be easy on VTT but I don't think any of them have great support for it.
I always just used chummer's built in dice roller or a discord bot. I think roll20 has full shadowrun 5e integration but I hate its interface so much that I stopped using it and would just use a discord channel with occasionally posted reference material instead.
New editions are so poorly written that most people who are fans of Shadowrun don't recommend playing them. I haven't checked out 6e, but 5e's layout was abysmal. Stuff like sections of rules that frequently reference other rules that were 30+ pages apart for no reason, and lots of links to the index were wrong.
When I ran Shadowrun for around 1-2 years a while ago, we gradually built up a houserule document that ended up being over 30 pages long.
yeah, i get that for some people scouring a bunch of splatbooks for cool stuff and building out a complete powerhouse is half the fun.
But when Korgoth the Destroyer is throwing 5d8s at level 2 and can 1 round things well above their CR, Dave the Elf with his slightly better than normal stats kinda has nothing to do while they turn everything into marinara sauce
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fair, though even if they fit in, having one character that's significantly better at combat to the point that the rest of the party might as well not be there is... kinda boring to play with in a standard DnD style game with it's focus on fighting
in games with more of a focus on rp, it's more tolerable
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yeah, when i'm dming my own games i focus way more on the rp
the extreme of it is when i dm for my girlfriend, we usually go 2 or 3 sessions without a single combat encounter lol, helped by our rampant system hopping
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i would simply not build dave the elf so poorly :shrug-outta-hecks:
Yes the problem is clearly the rest of the party and not the one person who sucks the fun out of the game
there is room in the system to make a functional character without the half this half that template n onsense
you just have to not exclusively take bad options
"anyone who doesn't do 5d8 at level 2 is clearly exclusively taking bad options"
can you actually do 5d8 at level 2 even that seems like an exaggeration
notice i never specified a system for the fictional scenario you insist on taking apart
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Not really. It's a valid point.
There's a difference between memes and propaganda. virgin/chad, and the "yes" guy are literally explicit propaganda. Even when they're stuff I agree with it, they're not funny. They can make you feel good, but they are objectively not funny.
Prior to 2015 or so, memes were not usually this explicitly propagandistic and were made to be legitimately funny.
If you're used to this era of memes, then some of the "memes" of the late 2010s era will seem annoying and dumb.
Basically, chuds have combined elements of meme culture into propaganda, and zoomers as well as undiscriminating millennials, still call these things "memes" because they resemble them on the surface.
No that's exactly what they are. Memes. They're also propaganda.
Don't mistake the form of a communication with the message it carries.
well at that point you can call anything a meme (which it technically would be)
Fine, these are "propaganda memes", and the ones before were not, or at least were much less so. Explicit propaganda isn't that funny to me, nor to many others. The question was "what meme do you not like" and they answered it
In the Dawkins sense, yes, correct, they're all memes, and as morally and politically neutral as an empty cup. They carry a message. It could be some racist bullshit, or it can be :wojak-nooo: CONTROLLERCELS MALDING OVER ALPHA CHAD KEYBOARD AND MOUSE USERS :gigachad:
Not that some messages don't have a preferred means of delivery. Like, the empty cup can still have a swastika on it. But I don't feel that the virgin/chad is that. It's just so inherently silly that nobody but a fucking moron could use it completely unironically.
(Also just to be obnoxiously pedantic "propaganda" technically refers to anything created with the purpose of dissemination so yes memes are propaganda and propaganda is memes :very-smart: )
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