I joined the military because of this movie

  • HarryLime [any]
    ·
    edit-2
    2 years ago

    Paul Verhoeven made movies where he shoved our stupid, tacky, murderous culture in our faces in nearly the most blunt and obvious way possible, and it's because he's entirely correct about us that we still have trouble getting it.

  • hollowmines [he/him]
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    2 years ago

    I highly recommend checking out the commentary track on the DVD where Verhoeven gets so riled up at the cast misstating the movie's themes that he berates them at speaker-destroying volume.

    • FourteenEyes [he/him]
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      2 years ago

      Oh I have to check this out lol

      The cast really were as stupid as they looked then

        • culpritus [any]
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          2 years ago

          even in the comments on the commentary lmao

          I like how he calls it fascist but it’s not

          3 likes

          Exactly, Verhoeven completely misunderstood the source material. He even misunderstands the world of his own movie. A lack of universal suffrage does not equal fascism. Granted it's a militaristic society, but it functions the same as a Roman Republicanism, not remotely fascist.

          1 like

          • UlyssesT [he/him]
            ·
            2 years ago

            Roman Republicanism, not remotely fascist

            :wtf-am-i-reading:

          • Frank [he/him, he/him]
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            2 years ago

            Ahahahaa. From what I understand he didn't even read the book all the way through. Just skimmed it, said "This is fascist trash" and threw it aside. Which means he was smarter than I am, I loved that book when I was a kid. : )

      • Frank [he/him, he/him]
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        2 years ago

        Casper Van Dien loved his character and reprised it a number of times in sequels. Verhoeven really nailed that one!

    • JustAnotherCourier [none/use name]
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      2 years ago

      Me too. Jello Biafra seems to be the only artist to ever figure out the solution to this:

      In a real fourth Reich you'll be the first to go

      Nazi punks, fuck off!

      • BeamBrain [he/him]
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        2 years ago

        Too bad Rock The Casbah still ended up being the unofficial theme song of US forces in the Gulf War

    • Waldoz53 [he/him, any]
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      2 years ago

      john carpenter has to reiterate that They Live is about rampant capitalism, not the jews + the deep state

      • duderium [he/him]
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        2 years ago

        I was actually going to start a struggle session about this. Is They Live actually reactionary because of its implication that civilization is under alien (i.e., Jewish) control, even though in reality capitalists are just as human as anyone else?

    • AssortedBiscuits [they/them]
      ·
      2 years ago

      Satire is the perfect artform for liberals: simultaneously smug and impotent. When your entire artform is completely undue by people taking it at face value, maybe it's time to go back to the drawing board.

      • Evilsandwichman [none/use name]
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        edit-2
        2 years ago

        When your entire artform is completely undue by people taking it at face value, maybe it’s time to go back to the drawing board.

        We're talking about people who take their anti-war principles so far they've reached insane racist levels and seem to miss the fact they're exactly what they think they hate so much. They spent the last 20 years sleeping on the Iraq and Afghan wars (and many, many other horrific incidences during, like the overthrow of Gaddafi and what it led to) and only now have discovered their anti-war stance.

          • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]
            ·
            2 years ago

            they’ve reached insane racist levels and seem to miss the fact they’re exactly what they think they hate so much

            russians aren't people sweaty

      • SerLava [he/him]
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        2 years ago

        So do you gotta just pop the bubble at the end or something? Like just all stare at the screen and go "lol, lmao if you thought X you're a fucking moron holy shit"

    • Evilsandwichman [none/use name]
      ·
      2 years ago

      What are you talking about? Warhammer 40k is proof of the heights we can reach under powerful leadership and heroic men!

  • JustAnotherCourier [none/use name]
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    2 years ago

    I know that [screenwriter] Ed Neumeier and I were aware of elements in American society that seemed to have the possibility of a certain fascism, but I did not believe myself that the United States would be able and willing to go in that direction."

    Paul Verhoeven has said it over and fucking over. It's not up for debate. Fuck you Nazi shits and fuck Roland Barthes for making this sort of debate mainstream.

    • FourteenEyes [he/him]
      ·
      2 years ago

      They do that with everything though

      Paul Verhoeven could have stepped out in front of the screen at every screening and explain what it was about and they'd still be all :so-true:

      • Frank [he/him, he/him]
        ·
        2 years ago

        They like American History X, ffs. There's no winning. I think the only person who ever successfully pulled it off is Mel Brooks, and even he didn't manage it 100%.

      • duderium [he/him]
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        2 years ago

        Is that really true though? The Great Dictator has Chaplin ranting about the goodness of humanity for like ten minutes and pretty relentlessly mocks Nazis. AFAIK fascists don’t care for it despite the fact that it’s a banger.

  • frogbellyratbone_ [e/em/eir, any]
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    edit-2
    2 years ago

    some people are just truly fucking stupid. the same morons won't drink merlot anymore because of sideways. completely missing the point of everything. for starship, the satire and criticism of militarism / fascism is in every fucking scene.

    from the military logos being designed like bugs themselves, to the analogy of brain bugs / smart men to worker bugs / infantry, to a super maimed recruiter* being like mobile infantry made me the man i am today. it's legit in every scene and will take too long to type it all out.

    this dude, even though lib and questionable at times, has some good quick analysis of the movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auoz8XQ2gQ4

  • UlyssesT [he/him]
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    2 years ago

    At this point, anyone making satire ought to be aware of just how many people are likely to take any satire at face value if it pleases them to see it that way. I'm not saying satire shouldn't be allowed or that it's impossible, but it really shouldn't be a surprise when bazingas, chuds, and libs are fixated on those blue curtains. :soypoint-1: :joker-amerikkklap: :soypoint-2:

    • Awoo [she/her]
      ·
      2 years ago

      Satire needs to be viciously attacked because it inevitably ends up becoming promotional propaganda for the thing it is attacking. At best it ends up useless, at worst it ends up actively harmful.

      Seriously we should be vehemently anti-satire, it has proven itself to be quite awful by now.

  • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]
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    2 years ago

    I joined the military because of this movie

    Sometimes I worry that I'm not thinking my decisions through, but I guess it could be worse

  • hollowmines [he/him]
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    edit-2
    2 years ago

    Side note: Verhoeven is about to reunite with this screenwriter for his first American film in decades.

    Verhoeven is currently preparing his next film, which reunites him with RoboCop screenwriter Edward Neumeier. Young Sinner is an erotic political thriller set in Washington DC about a "young staffer who works for a powerful Senator [and] is drawn into a web of international intrigue and danger."

  • THC
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    edit-2
    1 year ago

    deleted by creator

  • save_vs_death [they/them]
    ·
    2 years ago

    I'm half-convinced by all the points in this thread that say that satire is useless, but then i've seen a bunch of stuff that is not satire also fail horribly, like in FF7 you play as the eco-terrorists against the corporation bleeding the planet dry for money, and nobody bats an eye, so now what? (this is not unique to gaming, pipe down) that isn't even subtext, it's text. if you turn to the camera and go "we are now doing communism, which is good" people will say "oh i get it, this is satirising stalinism, the heroes are actually the bad guys"

    seems that up to some point all art is "smug and impotent", what even is the end game? that someone leaves the movie theatre going "yeah i SHOULD start a union"

    • SerLava [he/him]
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      edit-2
      2 years ago

      Yeah I have fun with satire, and stopping all satire isn't going to stop our extremely moneyed fascists from just doing straightforward fascist art. And sometimes satire is the only way to get anti-capitalist or anti-fascist messaging to a wider audience, not because execs are just hoodwinked but because they know it will have wider appeal if the message is too cloaked for total dipshits.