What if the 20k dead conscripted minority’s. Legit 1/4 of the dead.
Edit: also the Waffen SS is volunteers. I’m not talking about volunteers. A better comparison to what I’m talking about is Italian or Hungarian draftees.
It’s sad any of these people were exploited or put in a position where they felt forced to go into conscripted military service. I don’t think this site, one that typical is strong in showing empathy, should celebrate all deaths in a war as good.
Edit: also the Waffen SS is volunteers. I’m not talking about volunteers. A better comparison to what I’m talking about is Italian or Hungarian draftees.
No, a better comparison is the Wehrmacht, which was where all the Nazi draftees went.
"Oh poor Hans, you shouldn't condemn him for being drafted into the Wehrmacht" - that's you right now. And I don't know about you, but that sounds like fascist apologia to me.
Over 1 million soldiers on the eastern front in the Wehrmacht were conscripted ethnic minorities from areas that were forced to fight for occupation. They made up almost a quarter of the causalities. Very similar numbers to the minorities conscripted into the American military.
It’s great that you are so much wiser than the 18 year old black kid from Arkansas that received draft papers in 1966 with no alternative media options to explain what the conflict actually was.
I’m gonna hold my bloodlust for the actual architects and engines of war, rather than pray and cheer for the deaths of millions of grunts over the course of centuries of imperial conflict.
Conscripted minorities are certainly the most understandable perpetrators of the Vietnamese genocide. But prison was always an option, and every dead American soldier meant fewer dead Vietnamese.
Don't worry, this point is where this place loses me too. You have a nation that is simultaneously too propagandized to revolt but the same nation needs to be smart enough to see through propaganda and know that Vietnam was never a threat or enemy.
Believing that you wouldn't make the same decisions others make if you lived their exact lives is reactionary thought in my opinion and is a conclusion I've noticed that a lot of privileged lefties make.
A bunch of internet posters who actually think they would behave like Lenin in 1917 if presented with conflict against the state.
What of the tens of thousands of VVAW that succeeded in providing amnesty for draft dodgers in 1980? Should I wish they died instead of helping push the narrative against the war and end the draft?
Mods are deleting my post now because they can’t handle the argument that cheering the death of millions of proletariat is not Marxist.
Maybe they would. Maybe they wouldn't, hard to say if you don't live in any of those conditions.
I'd like to point to the conspiracy to kill Caesar, the conspirators had a couple of dozens onboard to assassinate Caesar but in the end only about 7 of them actually went and done the action.
The way a lot lefties look at conflict and arguments is a result of growing up in a western world, I think the left would be better if we strayed away from debate bro stuff and trying to peg things down into purely evil/purely good. Contradiction analysis n all that
Exactly what I was trying to say, but in a conflict oriented way.
I guess in the future I’ll be less confrontational. I just find it so “lib” to think so highly of yourself that you’d make all the right decisions in a period that’s 50 years removed from draft dodging being a felony and 40 years from smart phones and the internet allowing people to gather alternative media.
You have no idea what you would’ve been like back then. The conditions were completely different!
Dont be confrontational here is my recommendation, there are few places where people try to be nice and when people argue with you like that theyre wrong too, even if they think theyre right for it.
On the other note, You dont know what you would be like if you were born in another part of the country to different people, I think lefties think they are the way they are because theyre special when thats probably only a small factor of it.
Maybe if you were born in Oklahoma to poor people you wouldnt reach class consciousness or maybe much later in life.
I mean hell, Pat Tillman went from patriotic volunteer NAVY SEAL to the only public military service member to speak against the war. All in under a year of his deployment. Should I be happy he got shot by US troops because he ate up propaganda after 9/11?
Yes and no. Yes on the behalf of the third world, no on the behalf of the US consciousness. We live in contradictions, leftists should do their best to acknowledge them whenever possible.
Its just left brain reactionary thought, its a 'well actually'
I’d argue the reactionary thought is cheering for exploited people to die because they were compulsively forced to kill other exploited people.
Should I be happy about every westerner that died during Ww1 because their countries were imperialist?
You can call me when Kissinger dies. I’ll celebrate an actual architect of war dying
Most people were volunteers and prison was always an option.
Were the Waffen SS just poor propagandized victims, forced to kill by the state?
What if the 20k dead conscripted minority’s. Legit 1/4 of the dead.
Edit: also the Waffen SS is volunteers. I’m not talking about volunteers. A better comparison to what I’m talking about is Italian or Hungarian draftees.
It’s sad any of these people were exploited or put in a position where they felt forced to go into conscripted military service. I don’t think this site, one that typical is strong in showing empathy, should celebrate all deaths in a war as good.
No, a better comparison is the Wehrmacht, which was where all the Nazi draftees went.
"Oh poor Hans, you shouldn't condemn him for being drafted into the Wehrmacht" - that's you right now. And I don't know about you, but that sounds like fascist apologia to me.
Over 1 million soldiers on the eastern front in the Wehrmacht were conscripted ethnic minorities from areas that were forced to fight for occupation. They made up almost a quarter of the causalities. Very similar numbers to the minorities conscripted into the American military.
It’s great that you are so much wiser than the 18 year old black kid from Arkansas that received draft papers in 1966 with no alternative media options to explain what the conflict actually was.
I’m gonna hold my bloodlust for the actual architects and engines of war, rather than pray and cheer for the deaths of millions of grunts over the course of centuries of imperial conflict.
Conscripted minorities are certainly the most understandable perpetrators of the Vietnamese genocide. But prison was always an option, and every dead American soldier meant fewer dead Vietnamese.
are we really comparing the vietnam war to WWI now? lol lmao
When is a conscript a victim and when is a conscript a fascist?
Don't worry, this point is where this place loses me too. You have a nation that is simultaneously too propagandized to revolt but the same nation needs to be smart enough to see through propaganda and know that Vietnam was never a threat or enemy.
Believing that you wouldn't make the same decisions others make if you lived their exact lives is reactionary thought in my opinion and is a conclusion I've noticed that a lot of privileged lefties make.
A bunch of internet posters who actually think they would behave like Lenin in 1917 if presented with conflict against the state.
What of the tens of thousands of VVAW that succeeded in providing amnesty for draft dodgers in 1980? Should I wish they died instead of helping push the narrative against the war and end the draft?
Mods are deleting my post now because they can’t handle the argument that cheering the death of millions of proletariat is not Marxist.
Maybe they would. Maybe they wouldn't, hard to say if you don't live in any of those conditions.
I'd like to point to the conspiracy to kill Caesar, the conspirators had a couple of dozens onboard to assassinate Caesar but in the end only about 7 of them actually went and done the action.
The way a lot lefties look at conflict and arguments is a result of growing up in a western world, I think the left would be better if we strayed away from debate bro stuff and trying to peg things down into purely evil/purely good. Contradiction analysis n all that
Exactly what I was trying to say, but in a conflict oriented way.
I guess in the future I’ll be less confrontational. I just find it so “lib” to think so highly of yourself that you’d make all the right decisions in a period that’s 50 years removed from draft dodging being a felony and 40 years from smart phones and the internet allowing people to gather alternative media.
You have no idea what you would’ve been like back then. The conditions were completely different!
Dont be confrontational here is my recommendation, there are few places where people try to be nice and when people argue with you like that theyre wrong too, even if they think theyre right for it.
On the other note, You dont know what you would be like if you were born in another part of the country to different people, I think lefties think they are the way they are because theyre special when thats probably only a small factor of it.
Maybe if you were born in Oklahoma to poor people you wouldnt reach class consciousness or maybe much later in life.
Thank you for the advice
And yes, that specialness is what bothers me too.
I mean hell, Pat Tillman went from patriotic volunteer NAVY SEAL to the only public military service member to speak against the war. All in under a year of his deployment. Should I be happy he got shot by US troops because he ate up propaganda after 9/11?
Yes and no. Yes on the behalf of the third world, no on the behalf of the US consciousness. We live in contradictions, leftists should do their best to acknowledge them whenever possible.