A lot of these responses say to me y'all aren't even a little bit self aware.
If I read out some of the shit you say when you're horny or lovey-dovey then you'd cringe yourselves to death. If you talked to anyone else but your lover in this way you'd look like the biggest goofball goober in the world. Realizing that horniness changes your brain state to do some embarrassing things in retrospect does not make someone a serial killer lol.
PCT among males is associated with current psychological distress, sexual abuse during childhood, and with several sexual dysfunctions.
Maybe having hangups and anxiety over sex is actually indicative of deeper mental health problems. Who knew, men aren't raging sex machines without any emotions.
It's amazing we can understand that a woman feeling uncomfortable after sex might be due to deeper mental health problems but a man must be a misogynist.
PCD is associated with current psychological distress, sexual abuse, and other sexual dysfunctions in both men and women. Men aren't raging sex machines and in fact have hangups and anxiety over sex too.
You're putting a lot of words in my mouth, there. Doing a lot of reworking what NFT Avatar and Other Dude actually said, too.
Deeper mental health problems can - and in this specific case do - have an ideological component. I don't know what to tell you besides, "mainstream western culture is is at best permissive of hardcore misogyny and at worst overtly supportive of it, so of fucking course it's a load-bearing part of the most common ideologies that capitalize on men's loneliness."
You’re putting a lot of words in my mouth, there. Doing a lot of reworking what NFT Avatar and Other Dude actually said, too.
While the misogynist comment was uncalled for, I'm simply extending the same good faith that we'd extend to a woman in a similar situation.
Deeper mental health problems can - and in this specific case do - have an ideological component. I don’t know what to tell you besides, “mainstream western culture is is at best permissive of hardcore misogyny and at worst overtly supportive of it, so of fucking course it’s a load-bearing part of the most common ideologies that capitalize on men’s loneliness.”
Right, western culture of misogyny fuels mental health problems. So we should unpack those and realize that both men and women having sexual hangups is not a moral failing on their part.
A study on women found that PCD is not correlated with intimacy but occurs regardless. Your statement that this is ideological and rooted in men's loneliness is incomplete because PCD occurs at similar rates in both men and women. It also doesn't account for the many non-ideological correlations for PCD as mentioned in my previous comment.
PCD certainly is a serious problem and not a moral failing. As you say, my statement is incomplete, but I might call it focused instead. The reason I'm bringing up lonely men here isn't because I think PCD is confined to men, but because I don't know anything about women's experiences with it
I go into more detail in a separate comment thread, but my take on the way NFT Avatar talks about PCD as sort of, 'just how men work,' is that within their worldview, it very likely is how they're supposed to work. Tradcaths, Evangelicals, Mormons, and non-theistic Fapstronauts as they regrettably call themselves all share similar mechanisms for binding people's sex drives into a feedback loop of doomed internal battles-of-will followed by feelings of shame and inadequacy steeling their resolve for the next doomed battle
It's not just about masturbation, either. It's part of a broader, essentialistic way of looking at people and their sexuality. In that kind of framework, the concept of an "ideal person" can be contrasted to "human nature," and flattened onto a linear conception of morality. So, set the ideal to be both arbitrary and practically impossible, and suddenly you're violating Morality (or some pop-psychology equivalent) by thinking about butts, which almost seems funny until you think about how hellish that is
What I guess I'm trying to say is that, in addition to all the other traumas people go through, we have some massively popular ideologies that systematically inflict particular kinds of ideological trauma on tons of people. I was lucky enough to escape Evangelical philosophy early, but it's hard to describe just how reliably disorienting it can be to have a conditioned anxiety response to experiencing joy
If the post-nut feeling is clarity, then what does it say when that clarity involves you being disgusted by your partner to the point of not being able to look at them? I’m not saying they have to be turning you on with equal intensity before and after sex. Hell, I even experience sex repulsion sometimes after sex. But that’s an aspect of my sexuality and the natural fluctuation of hormones that occurs around sex, not an attribute of my partner. And they like cuddling after sex. That’s a need they have and I’m happy to meet it even if I’m sex repulsed because the point of cuddling after sex is not to be sexy.
Even if we are very generous to the Twitterers and insist that they’re conflating beauty with eroticism… the point of cuddling isn’t always sex. Your partner’s in one of the most vulnerable positions in life, as are you. To then go online and talk about how unattractive they are is intensely unempathetic and in this case betrays misogyny.
If the post-nut feeling is clarity, then what does it say when that clarity involves you being disgusted by your partner to the point of not being able to look at them?
I don't know, what potentially traumatic event could lead someone to have negative feelings about sex or a sense of shame around it?
And they like cuddling after sex. That’s a need they have and I’m happy to meet it
That's great. You both seem to be happy in that regard. Now imagine if your partner said there was something inherently wrong with you if you weren't okay with cuddling sometimes. Imagine if your feelings on the matter were considered secondary and indicative of a moral failing rather than personal preference or a deeper emotional issue.
To then go online and talk about how unattractive they are is intensely unempathetic and in this case betrays misogyny.
"I feel like an animal" does not equal "My partner is ugly." It sounds like to me they're not blaming their partner at all but themselves. We can make the abstraction that post-partum depression doesn't mean you hate your child because brain chemicals can be fucky. But a man having problems after sex must mean they secretly hate their partner.
I had one partner who experienced this kind of dysphoria after sex, but it wasn't something they thought was normal and they got counseling and we worked through it. Unfortunately it cropped back up with their later partners as well.
These individuals probably are experiencing something similar and I hope they get help, it definitely is indicative on internalized misogyny that they don't even consider it something with possible redress. It's just normal to them. Nobody would consider it normal unless their peer group and socialization are totally fucked.
This is exactly the point. The people in the post are speaking as if all relationships are cishet and making generalizations about how all men view their partners after sex.
CW: SA
I can’t speak for the person you’re responding to, but the casual unspoilered mentions of SA in this thread have me triggered af so I’m logging out of this account for a bit.
You have a point, but these guys can't even manage to cuddle afterward, they're just misogynists who can't interact with a woman (their life partner, in this case) unless they're horny.
PCD is a documented and studied condition that correlates with both high stress, sexual abuse, and other sexual dysfunctions in both men and women.
If a woman said "After sex, I feel uncomfortable and don't want to look at my partner" not a single person here would try to contradict that and deny their experience. God, even the left can't even consider that men might have mental health issues and aren't just raging sex machines.
As you said it is a condition, not a healthy behaviour that should be normalised. If you loathe your partner after sex something is wrong and you should get help.
A lot of these responses say to me y'all aren't even a little bit self aware.
If I read out some of the shit you say when you're horny or lovey-dovey then you'd cringe yourselves to death. If you talked to anyone else but your lover in this way you'd look like the biggest goofball goober in the world. Realizing that horniness changes your brain state to do some embarrassing things in retrospect does not make someone a serial killer lol.
There are different types of post-nut clarity, and the type where you loath your partner for hours afterward should not be normal or relatable.
PCT among males is associated with current psychological distress, sexual abuse during childhood, and with several sexual dysfunctions.
Maybe having hangups and anxiety over sex is actually indicative of deeper mental health problems. Who knew, men aren't raging sex machines without any emotions.
:get-out:
You're part of the problem buddy.
What? Realizing that sex has physiological effects is not the same thing as, "gotta legit not look at [my girl] for at least a couple hours."
It's amazing we can understand that a woman feeling uncomfortable after sex might be due to deeper mental health problems but a man must be a misogynist.
PCD is associated with current psychological distress, sexual abuse, and other sexual dysfunctions in both men and women. Men aren't raging sex machines and in fact have hangups and anxiety over sex too.
You're putting a lot of words in my mouth, there. Doing a lot of reworking what NFT Avatar and Other Dude actually said, too.
Deeper mental health problems can - and in this specific case do - have an ideological component. I don't know what to tell you besides, "mainstream western culture is is at best permissive of hardcore misogyny and at worst overtly supportive of it, so of fucking course it's a load-bearing part of the most common ideologies that capitalize on men's loneliness."
While the misogynist comment was uncalled for, I'm simply extending the same good faith that we'd extend to a woman in a similar situation.
Right, western culture of misogyny fuels mental health problems. So we should unpack those and realize that both men and women having sexual hangups is not a moral failing on their part.
A study on women found that PCD is not correlated with intimacy but occurs regardless. Your statement that this is ideological and rooted in men's loneliness is incomplete because PCD occurs at similar rates in both men and women. It also doesn't account for the many non-ideological correlations for PCD as mentioned in my previous comment.
PCD certainly is a serious problem and not a moral failing. As you say, my statement is incomplete, but I might call it focused instead. The reason I'm bringing up lonely men here isn't because I think PCD is confined to men, but because I don't know anything about women's experiences with it
I go into more detail in a separate comment thread, but my take on the way NFT Avatar talks about PCD as sort of, 'just how men work,' is that within their worldview, it very likely is how they're supposed to work. Tradcaths, Evangelicals, Mormons, and non-theistic Fapstronauts as they regrettably call themselves all share similar mechanisms for binding people's sex drives into a feedback loop of doomed internal battles-of-will followed by feelings of shame and inadequacy steeling their resolve for the next doomed battle
It's not just about masturbation, either. It's part of a broader, essentialistic way of looking at people and their sexuality. In that kind of framework, the concept of an "ideal person" can be contrasted to "human nature," and flattened onto a linear conception of morality. So, set the ideal to be both arbitrary and practically impossible, and suddenly you're violating Morality (or some pop-psychology equivalent) by thinking about butts, which almost seems funny until you think about how hellish that is
What I guess I'm trying to say is that, in addition to all the other traumas people go through, we have some massively popular ideologies that systematically inflict particular kinds of ideological trauma on tons of people. I was lucky enough to escape Evangelical philosophy early, but it's hard to describe just how reliably disorienting it can be to have a conditioned anxiety response to experiencing joy
If the post-nut feeling is clarity, then what does it say when that clarity involves you being disgusted by your partner to the point of not being able to look at them? I’m not saying they have to be turning you on with equal intensity before and after sex. Hell, I even experience sex repulsion sometimes after sex. But that’s an aspect of my sexuality and the natural fluctuation of hormones that occurs around sex, not an attribute of my partner. And they like cuddling after sex. That’s a need they have and I’m happy to meet it even if I’m sex repulsed because the point of cuddling after sex is not to be sexy.
Even if we are very generous to the Twitterers and insist that they’re conflating beauty with eroticism… the point of cuddling isn’t always sex. Your partner’s in one of the most vulnerable positions in life, as are you. To then go online and talk about how unattractive they are is intensely unempathetic and in this case betrays misogyny.
I don't know, what potentially traumatic event could lead someone to have negative feelings about sex or a sense of shame around it?
That's great. You both seem to be happy in that regard. Now imagine if your partner said there was something inherently wrong with you if you weren't okay with cuddling sometimes. Imagine if your feelings on the matter were considered secondary and indicative of a moral failing rather than personal preference or a deeper emotional issue.
"I feel like an animal" does not equal "My partner is ugly." It sounds like to me they're not blaming their partner at all but themselves. We can make the abstraction that post-partum depression doesn't mean you hate your child because brain chemicals can be fucky. But a man having problems after sex must mean they secretly hate their partner.
I had one partner who experienced this kind of dysphoria after sex, but it wasn't something they thought was normal and they got counseling and we worked through it. Unfortunately it cropped back up with their later partners as well.
These individuals probably are experiencing something similar and I hope they get help, it definitely is indicative on internalized misogyny that they don't even consider it something with possible redress. It's just normal to them. Nobody would consider it normal unless their peer group and socialization are totally fucked.
This is exactly the point. The people in the post are speaking as if all relationships are cishet and making generalizations about how all men view their partners after sex.
CW: SA
I can’t speak for the person you’re responding to, but the casual unspoilered mentions of SA in this thread have me triggered af so I’m logging out of this account for a bit.
You have a point, but these guys can't even manage to cuddle afterward, they're just misogynists who can't interact with a woman (their life partner, in this case) unless they're horny.
PCD is a documented and studied condition that correlates with both high stress, sexual abuse, and other sexual dysfunctions in both men and women.
If a woman said "After sex, I feel uncomfortable and don't want to look at my partner" not a single person here would try to contradict that and deny their experience. God, even the left can't even consider that men might have mental health issues and aren't just raging sex machines.
As you said it is a condition, not a healthy behaviour that should be normalised. If you loathe your partner after sex something is wrong and you should get help.
If you refuse to even look at your girlfriend after sex how do you think that's going to make her feel
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