My two cents on how to achieve left unity:
Anarchists: Stop using the word tankie. It pushes your fellow leftists away and pisses them off. Instead make specific criticisms of communist countries. ESPECIALLY stop calling MLs “red fash”. There is already enough misinformation going around about fascism.
Marxist-Leninists: Embrace critical support. Be willing to criticize and accept criticism of nations like China, the Soviet Union, and especially North Korea. Remember that being against US imperialism is not the only thing that makes a country good.
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all cops are bastards
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I was tempted to for jokes but I didn't want to risk getting temp banned from my chapo :stalin-stressed:
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A lot of accusations against China are Western propaganda. The concept that China might do something wrong is not Western propaganda.
Edit: I'm not saying "tankies" deny that China is capable of wrongdoing, but acknowledging that fact is what the post is asking, not that you repeat any particular anti China point.
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Yeah. People make dumb, hyperbolic points about China all the time.
But people also make much more measured and reasonable points, and those points get blown up and treated as though they were the same as the hyperbolic bullshit.
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Chapo Chat, like /r/cth, is an enemy of dirtbag leftists
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I don't really disagree with your actual claims, but your original comment is an example of what I was talking about. All the post said was, "xyz countries can be criticized" and you escalated that by treating it as though you were being asked to accept everything the BBC has to say about foreign policy.
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Sure, but from the text of the post and from your description of what you already believe, you're not being asked to change your ideology.
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That's fair enough, but a better response would be to point that out instead of the knee jerk response of assuming the asker is being disingenuous. We all have the same goals here.
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If you're interested in people understanding you and knowing what you mean, you'd best say what you mean instead of saying the opposite for "snark" purposes.
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When it comes to the worse anti-China points, I find it kind of funny how leftists will consistently and correctly point out how people are living in an incredibly effective propaganda machine, and then get extremely mad and upset when someone falls for that exact propaganda. Like, no shit, that's how it works. Argue the facts, yes, but don't pretend someone's a bad person because they're convinced a genocide is happening and, based on that conviction, try to oppose it.
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It is literally impossible to not fall for some sort of propaganda machine if you keep up with news from anywhere. The word propaganda doesn't mean something isn't true, but it's written in a way that pushed an idea forward.
You should always question the motives of any and all journalists out there. Because they all have them and they aren't all pure of heart.
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I'm saying anarchists aren't the only ones who don't do that. You see MLs take Russian, Chinese or Venezuelan state media at it's word too.
The point is facts aren't a relevant in any part of the equation in the world of geopolitics. It's just what you can get people to believe.
This said when you see some baby leftist retweet something that clearly came from radio free asia I cringe every time.
Propaganda works. It's not a personal failing.
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"Every state is bad" is not an unreasonable conclusion to draw based on the current conditions of the world
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From the proposition that all states are bad, it becomes much easier to believe any particular accusation against a state.
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But if leftists know it's being done and that it works, how can leftist be willing to push it? I became more and more of a tankie, the more I read. All while seeing all these gotcha posts on rcompleteanarchy with the uhygur train prisoners.
Whenever I argue for China I start with: there is no perfect government. There probably never will be. But what China /USSR accomplished, based on their material conditions, are/we're great.
When a leftist doesn't want to see that, fine. But please, don't criticize from your Trevor Noah libbrain pov.
Anarchists, especially Western ones, are incredibly idealist. They always approach criticism from the lense of "how things should be" instead of "how they were then, and how they are now". Socialism is a process and you can't just dissolve a state because some people think it should be dissolved. You need to apply a huge amount of organized violence to the state for it to be crushed or even just taken over.
noooooo!!!!!! you can't just dissolve a state because some people think it should be dissolved!
lmao whose the idealist one now? Everyone knows the point of communism is to organize the working class so that when capitalism's acceleration of its crises reaches a breaking point, the people can take the reins.
You seem to have missed the part about material analysis and a look at the past and present. Show me a revolution that succeed without applying violence to the state.
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Tanks at least are cool, Red Fash is (like imo "Social Fascist" outside of something like full Strasserism) an incoherent category that prevents proper critical discussion of the actual material differences.
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l i n e n s