Also be nice, everyone. This is for funsies not fightsies.
Mine is that Prince is suuuuuper overrated and merely a meh songwriter at best.
:obama-spike: : Uhhhhh I like it when a cute guy gets a boner and has to try and hide it from me, Uhhhhh getting all flustered and embarrassed and uhhhhhhh I don’t think it counts as sexual attraction
:doomer: : Mx. President, this is a record store.
Music has always been heavily influenced by the physical spaces it occupies and the people who occupy that space. From classical symphonic music to EDM to stadium rock, all music relates to these spaces and adapts to the experience of their audiences. And the modern space is, disproportionately, headphones. And the modern audience is, disproportionately, a single person.
In other words, nearly all the modern music you listen to was created as an expression of capitalist atomization.
Yeah music made for headphones is more and more common. Lorde's first album "Pure Heroine", for example, is straight up meant to be listened to on headphones. A lot of the spacial effects don't sound right on speakers.
An example of this is bass panning from one ear to another, or switching from ear to ear/channel to channel. ("Buzzcut Season" off of that album does this.) Doesn't work well on speakers, bass isn't spacial, your brain can't really tell where it's coming from. Its how something like a subwoofer in the corner of a room or theatre can work. But with headphones, where each ear is fully isolated from the other (if there's no crossfeed involved) and you have an entire driver centimetres from your ear, it can produce a wonderful spacial effect.
I think the panned bass thing is a good example, yeah. Another big one is little intricacies being lost in large rooms. For example, jazz clubs traditionally being less reverberant so things like intense bebop runs were still intelligible and therefore able to be popularized whereas that stuff becomes like mush in a lot of really reflective spaces. It’s why so many bougie theaters have spent so much money on giant movable wooden panels for their walls and ceilings. I think a lot of modern metal music has a similar dynamic with headphones.
Yeah a lot of headphones can lose that sense of space or become super wide, and sound very unnatural with regards to details, with music made to be listened on speakers, because there are no reflections, at all. The drums on metal and hard rock go to mush quite often. The Harman target can help, but still.
And as you said, listening in a room full of reflections is no better either. Just another extreme. And treating rooms is expensive unless you're fine with old egg carton boxes everywhere.
Your take is amazing and I can't believe I never saw it that way before. :order-of-lenin:
david byrne writes about this in the first chapter of his book "how music works". more about the first part than the whole atomization thing but it's still really interesting
There’s a loooot of music that I just didn’t get until I heard it performed live. A lot of 50’s rock music sounded super cliche to me until I played in a cover band whose leader was real good at picking hard dance tunes and some of that shit can really get you going with the right band.
I always thought folk jigs and reels were really mid, then I was at a beach while a local band jammed Louisiana folk music and got everyone in audible range dancing. Higher energy event than any concert I've ever been to
I'm not really understanding this, how are the prevalence of headphones related to the capitalist atomization?
Prior to the advent of recorded audio, music was something people performed together, often as a family or community. Yeah, there were orchestras and professional singers, but the dominant way that people interacted with music was much more ephemeral and communal. Over time, more focus has been placed on music as a form of consumption. It became a marker of personal taste and identity, and importantly it did so in the way that all commodities do over time: in an increasingly individualistic manner.
I think the most immediate way to see how this processed had worked in the recent past is to look at the gentrification and corporate consolidation of music venues. But I think the whole thing about headphones is kind of a combination of these two phenomenon. Music is driven by its space and headphones are literally the driest space possible. And music is also increasingly individualistic under capitalism, so some music dovetails with capitalism better than others
Maybe, but part of the reason headphones are prevalent is the death of space and time and money for art and community. It's much easier to go to a live concert when the ticket is $5 and you can take a streetcar to the venue. It's an inevitable tension, but there's a diversity of goals if people also engage with live music more often.
Sure, just not to the same extent. It’s about the prevalence of individualistic consumption more than anything.
:yes:
The point is that it helps calm and soothe some people while they're doing a task. I don't need an ear assault while doing that.
I dont think thats really controversial and I say that as someone who likes Lo-fi. I like Lo-fi because its simple and chill and doesnt interrupt my thought process while reading or working. (Its very nice background noise) I also like metal and rap but neither of those gernes are a great fit while reading or doing complexer tasks at work because the tempo and lyrics distract me.
Like you can dislike Lo-fi for being "Elevator Music" but thats kind of the whole selling point and exactly what the people want.
I like trance because it all sounds the same if you're not paying attention, but if you do pay attention there's plenty of depth and texture to explore.
Like I can use literally the same playlist for both active listening and background noise.
not quite trance, but have you ever listend to 'on the other ocean' by david behrman?
Oh, for sure. I actually do like it for the same reasons you do. But I just think we ought to be honest with ourselves about what it is.
But I just think we ought to be honest with ourselves about what it is.
I already was :I-was-saying:
Piss is bad actually. I have a poor diet and me pee pee smells funky. ew, who wants a face full of that shit? NOT ME.
It's okay to go though music phases. You're not a poser or a sell out, your tastes just changed as you got older and life happened. That is probably the most normal thing in the world. And I say this as a punk.
Also audiophiles are just weird, and I'm the type of guy to build my own obscure technology speakers (like DML/panel speakers) because I like the sound. They're very easy to grift. Though this is more of an ice cold take.
Hotel California is still the best song to try out new speakers or headphones, or DIY creations. And if it doesn't sound right, don't get those headphones or speakers. For some reason this just works.
Politics and music only mix well of the artist knows what they are doing. Listening to Dua Lipa try to sing a feminist song on future nostalgia was torture. She does not know how to write political music.
Most people don't know how pitch correction or autotune even sounds like. There are some breakout albums when a band got signed by a major label full of pitch correction on the vocals and no one cared and they still have their "100% real" reputation intact.
A recent one, everyone should listen to music from a DML/panel speaker paired with a subwoofer at least once. Even if the panels are made of cardboard or polystyrene, and the subwoofer is a cheap piece of junk, it's just a completely different sound. Maybe not the best or most accurate, but to have a whole panel of something radiate sound is unique. In general people need to try different ways of listening to music. And it doesn't have to be expensive audiophile nonsense.
Last couple of foo fighters albums have been unlistenable and Nickelback tier, as much as I like their earlier albums. Makes me appreciate the talent of Cobain much more.
Musicians and music listeners should DIY more. Maybe it's just my DIY punk side, but seriously there's a lot of beauty in it. Make your own band shirts. Modify your instruments. Plug guitars into weird shit (provided it won't break it). People are too scared of making mistakes these days. If it breaks it breaks :shrug-outta-hecks:. Better to try than do nothing at all.
Bunkers! New hit out now!
Artwork is Dua Lipa doing the Albanian Eagle with her hands.
Musicians and music listeners should DIY more.
My band is hitting the point where we're either doing shows that personally interest us, or DIY stuff. Around here, at least.
There are some breakout albums when a band got signed by a major label full of pitch correction on the vocals and no one cared and they still have their “100% real” reputation intact.
Do you have any examples?
Nearly anything recorded in the last 20 years has some amount of auto tune. Most people think auto tune is that weird vocoder shit. That's not it. Auto tune is exactly what it says: it tunes your actual voice or notes being played. It also takes away all inflection and natural imperfections and makes voices sound bland.
Once you hear it, you can't unhear it.
Yeah, ive even heard it in classical albums and it ruins shit so damn fast. People straight toning a note are almost never going to me exactly in tune, and in fact composers using that as colour is a key technique.
One of my favourite bands and albums, but Rise Against - Siren Song of the Counter Culture. So overproduced. But it was their first album on a major label (Geffen I think) and they thought they would be tossed in the trash afterwards so I can understand it.
Hotel California
For classical this song is Charpentier'sTe Deum. Once at equal temprament, once at original.
Isn't that used as the Eurovision TV network theme, and has been the opener for all the Eurovision song contests?
That could be why, many are familiar with it.
The opening march yeah. The whole piece goes for 20min though. Not quite as comprehensive as something like Mass in B minor but it goes through a lot of Baroque subgenres.
Plug guitars into weird shit (provided it won’t break it).
Whatever you do, do NOT plug a 1/4" guitar cable into the speaker output on your little 15 watt solid state Gorilla amplifier, put a 1/4" to 1/8" headphone adapter on the other end, and hook it up to your sound card's input jack. (Or in my case, my Amiga's outboard DSS8 sampler.)
This reminds me of when my friend wanted to plug his electric guitar directly into my speakers lmao.
Rolling stones have more interesting music than beatles :i-told-you-dog:
(I’m not martin scorcese)
Totally agree. I’ve always said that while both bands were active, the Beatles definitely had the better output. But then the stones made music for another 40 years. Their best album wasn’t even released until after the Beatles broke up.
This is not a hot take nobody listens to Afroman for precisely this reason. Be braver comrade you can do it
MF doom is overrated most people only got into him because of the amazing production by danger mouse
:mission-accomplished-1:Eh honestly I agree with you about the first part, but Doom was already pretty big before Danger Mouse, honestly back then Danger Mouse wasn't even a big name. If anything it was his collab with Madlib that got people noticing
This is unfortunately a lot of political music. And I love political songs usually.
Political music is like Christian music. It’s better when it’s subtle enough to be ignorable. But there’s also a difference between music that’s meant to be listened to be individuals on speakers and music that’s meant to be sung.
It needs to use some good metaphors and abstraction at least. Some good song writing. You can't just yell "shits fucked man" into the mic for an entire album.
Rise Against is a popular band that does it well, but then they somehow end up with chud fans that miss the whole point of the song.
You can’t just yell “shits fucked man” into the mic for an entire album.
Fuck you I like hardcore
I do as well, but there's a point where I'm begging the songwriters to try and express themselves in a different way. A half decent simile or metaphor won't kill you.
He obviously didn't listen to Blowback Podcast Season 2. :castro-stuff:
The Hollies are underrated compared to other British Invasion bands.
The worst thing to happen to ska was white people, and the 90s.
Punk is usually only interesting for about 15 minutes.
The Smiths are only mildly good. They would have been better as an instrumental band.
The Beastie Boys should have retired after Paul's Boutique.
New Order wrecks Joy Division in every way possible.
Hip Hop hasn't been interesting in 15 years.
Punk is usually only interesting for about 15 minutes.
luckily this is almost the max length of any punk album.
The 90s fucked a lot of music scenes in retrospect. From ska to dance to rock eventually.
That punk take breaks my heart though 😭. I understand I guess
The worst thing to happen to ska was white people, and the 90s.
Was going to defend the British late 70s wave of ska, but then I remembered there's like two or three bands that are actually good.
The Smiths are only mildly good. They would have been better as an instrumental band.
Morrissey being an annoying dickhead is like the whole appeal to the Smiths
i’d say mainstream hip hop hasn’t been interesting for the past 10 years, basically around the time since the “blog era” ended aside from like future and young thug
but underground hip hop has been consistently amazing
The Beastie Boys should have retired after Paul’s Boutique.
this would have been agreeable if they didn't release Hot Sauce Committee Part Two as a final album
Most lyrics suck. They’re boring as shit and don’t hold up without their rhythm or melody.
Around 70% of mainstream American rock critics' hostility toward progressive rock is explained by the fact that Montreal found out about it before NYC did.
I never really got into any prog stuff so I can't refute that
Well, if there are any genres you like that you've noticed professional critics tend not to like, you are free to speculate about whether there are any petty reasons for this!
In hip-hop there a right and wrong way to be sincere. It's usually directly tied to delivery and technique. You can only be really "real" if you're a good MC.
Brownsville's Ka is one of the most genuine and sincere rappers out there, talks a lot about being vulnerable and the lowest points of his childhood. He isn't called a cornball because he is a real wordsmith. Chance The Rapper I think did a great artistic work on "Acid Rap" talking about all sorts of heavy stuff, but was rebuffed on "The Big Day" because it lacked any of the technical skill he displayed in previous work. Rather than comparing Ka to Chance (which is just totally unfair now that I think write this out), I think it'd be more better to compare Chance to Kid Cudi.
Cudi has a lot of sadness, depression, sorrow, and weakness in his "Man on the Moon III: The Chosen" album but it's so well done it does not the get ire Chance's got a year prior. Cudi's MOTM3 was this really well put together audio trip, in a similar vein to "Acid Rap". MOTM3 was carried by a vibe, but that vibe I think carried the wordplay and lyrics to a place that had some real emotional impact. "The Big Day" had sort of heartless positivity I think people could easily see through.
Chance's joy wasn't what I think people found corny, I think people just thought it was just bad rap. You can love your wife, if anything most listeners are all for it; but you better have some bars to show it.
I think hip-hop has a lot of room for alternatives to the hyper macho masculinity, but I believe but it demands you be good at being that alternative. If anything I think hip-hop holds those in the alternative space to a slightly higher standard. I don't know if this is a "hot take" exactly, but I feel like a lot people get it twisted that hip-hop is anti-feelings and stuff. It isn't, but it certainly is anti-bad rappers.
In hip-hop there a right and wrong way to be sincere. It’s usually directly tied to delivery and technique
More artists in general need to understand that. There's a fine line between sincere lyrics and presentation, and sounding really corny.
Seinfeld was never good to me. Subjectively, I found it unfunny and obnoxiously arrogant and smug in the 90s and then it aged poorly from there. The claim that so many comedies owe their formula to Seinfeld is more damning than anything else to me. :I-was-saying:
EDIT: Shit, this is music specific. Well that little "SOMETHING FUNNY WAS JUST SAID! LAUGH! LAUGH" musical ditty on the show was always grating, too.
I'll save you and bring this back to music. Playing the Seinfeld music at a party is funny, at least to me.
It only lasts for about 15 seconds, and then I lose my dj privileges.
While the singer of Greta van fleet may have a nice voice that has been complimented by Robert plant, their music sounds extremely cover band and doesn’t offer anything special
ive heard that take a lot about them, but ive never heard any of their music
They're zoomer boomer dad rock:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJg4OJxp-co
I don't think this is even a hot take. I think you're just objectively correct here. They're not even trying to sound like their own thing in any way and are just a naked, uninspired pastiche of Zep.
Get that easy bag I guess, but I just find them to be pretty soulless and uninteresting. Shame, too, because they seem like talented fellas.
Foo Fighters was never good and all their music is sandpaper for eardrums
I have never forgiven them for playing an AIDS denial benefit.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2000/02/foo-fighters-hiv-deniers/Over the past few years they've become the new Nickelback with radio friendly rock. And it really hurts to say that.
I honestly struggle to listen to anything past the "In Your Honor" album, except for the pretender song.
Got bored and decided to clarify:
I’m currently sick of all of the punk music that’s basically apolitical libertine (or worse libertarian) schlock. Propagandhi has been a welcome refuge of gay communist propaganda.
Please recommend some. I’ve been desperate to expand my library for years.
I'm basically an encyclopedia of diy punk so it's a bit tough being super broad but punk with good politics more of less began with Crass, so not the worst place to start. The UK anarcho scene of the early 80s has lots of great bands, Dirt, Flux of Pink Indians, Conflict (although they kinda became chuds over the years, but that was like the last 10 years and way after their relevency), Icons of Filth, Omega Tribe, The Mob, Rubella Ballet, Hagar the Womb, Riot//Clone and sooo many others.
Discharge is essential and in general D Beat rules.
That's just a few bands from a small period of time/geographic area. I'm sleepy rn but can recommend a lot more.
Okay, I’m interested. I’m pretty familiar with the genre as a whole, so assume I’ve heard all the big names like Crass. I’ll be checking out the ones I’m unfamiliar with and bugging you afterwards. This went better than I thought it would.
Sick, if I have more of a niche to work with I can pick stuff out better. Asking me about punk is like going into a library and just asking for a book, there's so much to sort through I gotta narrow the scope.
I disagree but they're also hometown heroes so I'll let it slide.
