The creator is demonstrably a fan of far right japanese ultranationalism, WW2 war crime revisionist, and big fan of a noted Japanese colonialist general who he personally based one of the characters off of.
I think the show/manga is a complicated affair, lots of different ways of reading into portrayals of military might, the horrors of war, depictions of minorities, enough so that I wouldn't say its full throat-ed "fascism" , but the creators views are unambiguous. A brief trawl through top google searches about him and controversies is enough.
so it goes. I almost think the fans are more annoying lol. "eren is the coolest dude ever really understanding power is the will to seize it " type beats. The fights remain chefs kiss though. and the armored/colossal titan reveal is an all time great moment.
If you like Levi, I cannot recommend the miniseries about his origin story highly enough. The ED is a really pretty song too.
fascists don't know how to have good stories, so they get really confused while writing and end up critiquing themselves
The show is fascist on many levels. First things first, I have only watched up to the middle of the fourth season (I think? IDK, but it wasn't the end), but I know how it ends.
In the first three seasons it's more subtextual. The way characters get torn to pieces by inhuman monsters reminds me of Starship Troopers, which is very obviously a satire of fascist propaganda. It shows that the humans of this world are treated as insects, whose only goal is to serve the state. The Scouts is almost a death cult in that respect.
However, once we get to the fourth series it really kicks off.
spoiler
We learn that the inhabitants of Paradis are (Germanic) Eldians, the decendents of titans who are said to have fought a horrendous war against the resto of the world in the past. For this, they are treated as second class citizens, and made to live in ghettos and wear armbands so that everyone else can recognise them. The Marleyans, who were apparently the worst treated of the Eldians' subjects in the time of the Eldian Empire, insist that the Eldians be kept under close surveilance, so that they are never able to rise up again.
However, it is implied that perhaps the Eldians weren't as bad as everyone says they were, and Eren wants to call the Marleyan's bluff and genocide the rest of the world anyway.
Now, lets look at the metatextual aspects at play. AoT is a Japanese programme, and the Japanese were allies of the Nazis during WWII who committed numerous war crimes which went completely unpunished. There is also a blatant holocaust analogy here with the ghettos and armbands. Being as the Eldians are meant to be Germans, and that they are treated as second class citizens because of something they are alleged have done in the past, the implication is that the Japanese (Germans via the Eldians) should be let off the hook for the crimes they committed in the past. The fact that Eren wants now to do it properly, and that we are meant to root for him, is essentially the "it didn't happen, but they deserved it and it'll happen again" pol meme. In a weird way, this also means that the Marleyans are somewhat justified in being suspicious of the Eldians- they are indeed planning to destroy the world. Or one of them is, at least. The fact that the mistreatment of Eldians is what makes Eren want to call their bluff reminds me of the whole "black people made me racist!" thing you sometimes see on the internet.
The icing on the cake here is that the ones punishing the Eldians now are the one who were being subjugated in the past- following the analogy, this would be the Jews. The idea of Germany and Japan being continually punished for the crimes of WWII is a common one amongst nationalists and neonazis, and having the Jewish stand-ins be the ones doing the oppressing is pure anti-semitism.
yeah, exactly. it reifies the anti-semitic conspiracy theory about the Jews controlling the world.
yeah, once i got to season 4 or whenever the whole "secret" was revealed, I just realised they were doing a "oh no, now they're white genociding us as punishment! kinda makes you think they deserved it, huh?" and really lost interest
it's an insanely fascist conception of the world. it's legitimately surprising how deep references go. If you look up world map for the setting: Look, the Jews are quarantined in Madagascar.
Also, the nobility weren't just asshole short-sighted eldians who liked their privileges, they were Marleyans, because it's easy for the author to think about society secretly being controlled by a foreign race of elites who are trying to weaken and destroy them from within.
It's kind of clever, because people thousands of years in the future may have a different sense of what's oriented north or south. It starts to not make sense though because the series presents the "north" as brutally cold. The entire series takes place on Madagascar, their "north" would be our south, and southern Madagascar is an arid semi-desert that's hotter than the north. Maybe it's climate change related, or the creator just didn't care.
no, because the map isn't rotated, it's flipped. it's a different planet.
Sounds like a fash is more progressive about climate change than you, :LIB:
i think in the way that the creator is a clear fascist but the story until the ending can be read in a non fash or even anti fash way is interesting to think about. i thought the show was completely like an anti fash criticism of fascistic ideology until i learned about the author, but i think it shows in a weird way the place fascistic ideology comes from is in everything but its assumptions a genuine anger towards "injustice"
And everything that happens in the show happens because of the conolizing military kicking it off in episode 1. I haven't read the last few chapters but I see it being about military escalation leading to the end
One very important thing that I have learned about how fascists think is that they exhibit the trope of feeling oppressed by their existence..
As a Jew, I understand how much these lot suffer from pure b*tch eating crackers syndrome. They will accuse you of everything they are guilty of themselves, in order to justify doing said things that they claim they hate about you. Take many antisemitic stereotypes: Greed, manipulating the world's events from behind the scenes, bent on replacing other races. That has been what the anglosphere bourgeoisie has done for centuries, from colonialism all the way to the CIA.
If they don't like you, everything you do will be offensive. Hence why they want minorities censored from media. Look at them, existing in that movie as a background character like they own the place! /s
it being fascist art doesn't mean you're wrong to enjoy it. that said, it's anti-semitic because the Jews (Marleyans) literally control the world and the volk are relegated to second-class citizenship, while the heirs of the Nazis are contained in what amounts to an open air prison. it reifies a major antisemitic conspiracy theory.
in the origin story, the Marleyans were genocided by the Eldians. the Marleyans now control the world - literally - and it's the Eldians who are relegated (unjustly) to ghettos.
I'm not saying the Marleyans are justified, I'm saying the way the story reads, the Marleyan threat was contained long ago and their failure to finish the job has led to the present state of the world. whether or not it's actually true is kind of secondary - it's the only version of events we're presented.
like with any allegory, it's possible to read it many ways. but this is why people think it's antisemitic. I had to stop watching the anime cause the fashy themes (power of the will triumphing over all, etc.) made it fairly unwatchable for me. but you're allowed to read the story differently.
That's not how I read it since the story begins with the Marleans attacking, and that sets the entire series in motion.
because by the only account we're given, they were once relegated to that status, but now control the world. it's as if the anti-semitic conspiracy theory were brought to life. consider it like this -- if you wanted to tell a story about what a danger to the world the Jews are, how different would the story you come up with be from the one we got?
(also, tangent, but Eren gets the eyes of god with perfect foreknowledge of the future and the best plan he come up with is a genocidal purge?? it reads like a fascist power fantasy to me)
fascists have to make their enemy out to be simultaneously all-powerful and also wicked and weak, easily stomped by the strongman who seizes power and aims to wipe them out. knowing that it's a fascist power fantasy is what prompts me to read it the way a fascist would.
But that account is also shown to be a line of propaganda which is fed to us by the marleyans government.
circling back to this for a second - this is pretty much verbatim what holocaust / japenese war crimes denialists will say in the present about historical atrocities.
I understand that, and I dont disagree with that read, I am just explaining how I cannot see that the marleyans and not the eldians are supposed to be Jewish.
how you read it is up to you, just presenting the view you were asking about.
The Marleans didn't control the world but were one of the world powers. They had a military advantage with the Titans but that was going away with the invention of better weapons and machinery. Which is why they attacked Paradis Island in the beginning of the series to get the Founding Titan
it's mostly that once you know the mangaka's political views his intentions with a lot of it (especially the ending) become a lot less clear
One way ideology expresses itself in fiction is that narratives are set up to justify whatever actions the creator ideologically supports. The creator has full control over the world they're creating, so the very act of setting up a scenario that justifies genocide or torture or murder is ideology. Home Alone is another example, basically a suburbanite violence fantasy about torturing and maiming the Other, but the way it's written the violent acts are justified because the Other "deserved it". But the whole idea of the Other deserving it is an assumption baked into white suburbanite ideology.
All that being said, (and having not read the manga, and the anime isn't finished yet last I checked so idk) AoT the anime doesn't have to be read as endorsing fascism yet imo. Rather it has portrayals of fascist influences and motivations in various characters and factions. The show illustrates how strongly narratives and symbols tie into fascism, how mythology can bring people together to willingly go along with terrible crimes. A recurring theme is how every faction claims they're "trying to save humanity" while committing mass murder, with ever increasing stakes and consequences. It shows fascist justifications and mythology taken to their logical conclusion. I'm hoping the ending doesn't force a fascist-friendly interpretation.
And sometimes I'm in the mood for some edgy, violent, dramatic slop that reminds me of my childhood. edit: as in a show I watched as a teen, not I had to kill titans as a child lmao
He could destroy their military and not… y’know, murder every last man woman and child on the entire planet.
His power was effectively unlimited. He could do anything he wanted, but he chose genocide.
This would be like if North Korea decided to start a nuclear war instead of defending themselves with nukes.
All those same things happened to his comrades and they tried to stop him from doing it.
So yeah, he’s pure evil and totally wrong.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. No one deserves to suffer for things done by people that happen to look like them.
Most Jewish people indeed did not try to genocide Germans. Any that felt they had to were just wrong and deliberately choosing revenge.
I thought You're saying what he is doing makes sense from his perspective?
Which is why I pointed out it doesn’t make sense even then and would make him evil.
“What else could he do?” Implies a subjectively reasonable course of action.
Yeah I was explaining how he ended up at the place he did,
You didn't, because his compatriots notably did not end up that way despite enduring very similar hardships. More explanation would be needed about what sets Eren apart from everyone else who lives to see that part of the story.
what else could he do?
This is a completely ridiculous question to ask. With Eren's motivation revealed, he's basically committing something similar to a false flag attack, but with the "attack" being a genocide of like 2/3 of the planet's population, in order to unite the races against him. That's a harebrained solution to a problem of racial conflict and if his actual motivation was ever discovered, it would his re-integrated patriots appear as conspirators and likely just get pogrommed. Also he literally kills most of the people on the planet in order to do this.
a military dictatorship overthrowing a monarchy is basically just changing monarchs
i shouldn't think so unless its a military with an integral nobility, and if they don't immediately crown themselves there's certainly something different happening.
This question can not be answered without spoiling the ending.
However I will say that the obvious theme of the story is that an island nation of people who used to be great are now trapped on their island with their empire in tatters. They believe they should be the rightful rulers of the world, and that they should break out of their island and reclaim what was once theirs.
Now relate this concept to Japan and Japanese nationalists fond of their former empire.
How do you sit through four seasons of this stuff? It looks so incredibly ugly and bleak.
i think the flesh-mechas are particularly gross, but i guess tastes just differ on that.
i don't know what rubs me the wrong way about them, something's just off about their proportions. also goes for a lot of the humans on the show in a less pronounced way, as if their torsos just aren't the right size or smth
I thought it was quite well animated and good looking. It is bleak though yeah
from what i've heard, it takes a turn towards the end
never finished it myself though
