morally justify a fascist genocide campaign running for the entire duration of the story
I havent watched nor read it but according to the 1st chapter, arent the goblins inherently evil mindless beasts like the demons in doom? So technically isnt it not a genocide to slaughter them? Because in this case they are a fantasy enemy which represents the idea of evil right?
Did you know that they were written to be inherently evil to justify a heroic genocide? Really makes you wonder why the author wanted to justify such a thing
They are, not that that is going to stop the same usual nerds from getting big mad about it being fascist slop or whatever
I want to read some Dungeons and Dragons shit where the characters make use of real world physics intersecting with in universe magic to Do Cool Shit. Goblin Slayer has that, and does a good fucking job of it. Connecting a teleportation scroll to the bottom of the ocean to use the water pressure like a laser? Cool. Using flour as a fuel air bomb? Hahaha cool. Sorry certain people are too fucking obsessed with their hatred of media and media tropes to appreciate it because they think the only Good Media would have the main characters idk building communism with the goblins
I almost want to write some parody shit where I basically take one of the posts criticizing "the settler colonialism of [whatever isekai Nerds Mad About]" and transpose everything to being about, idk, Ghostbusters. Are the ghost busters not a proto fascist escapist stand in for the viewer? Are the faceless, 'evil' ghosts not merely stand ins for the colonized indigenous, encouraging the viewer to Do a Genocide? Idk i think it's a good bit. You can't enjoy Ghostbusters anymore, sorry sweaty
So, first of all- you're free to consume problematic media. Reading Mein Kampf or The Turner Diaries doesn't automatically turn you into a Nazi, otherwise we'd have a lot of right wing political graduate students. The only danger these books pose are to those who uncritically accept the author's ideas, and I'm sure there'll be no problems on that front given the general media literacy of people in the anglosphere. If you think there's cool stuff in the show by all means enjoy it.
But Goblin Slayer was written for someone, by someone, to communicate something.
Why are the goblins cunning enough to set traps and ambush people, but too stupid to engage in diplomacy or have their own culture? Hmmmmm, I dunno, my dude Umberto Eco has something to say about that. “[…] the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.” I dunno, seems pretty sus to me...
Why does it open with graphic rape? Oh haha those whacky Japanese and their strange cultural perversions, that's it, it's totally not that fear of sexual assault has a long history of being used to justify racism. It's not as if historically minorities have been lynched on trumped up charges of sexual assault. It must be because the goblins are ontologically evil, the author's not trying to draw some equivalence or something.
If the goblins pose that much of a danger to people, why do the powers that be leave them alone? Why isn't there an organized response by official to deal with them? Why do the powers that be actively suppress information about goblins? Can't possibly be anything to do with conspiracy theories about how the the media in the real world suppresses the real crime statistics that show minorities in a bad light, right? Can't possibly be so that the big, strong MC has to take things into his own hands, go all 'lone wolf' and enact all that cool improvised violence, right? Gotta be a real big damn hero. Oh here comes Eco again: “in Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”
The answer to the above questions, of course, is because the author wrote it like that. So the next thing we need to ask is why. Who could this story possibly be for? I hope I gave sufficient inferences through the sarcasm.
When people criticize art, they aren't attacking you as a person, they're attacking the ideas presented in the texts. I'm not trying to wokescold people into enjoying only Good Communist Approved Media. Me, personally, I call shit like Goblin Slayer out because I'm the fucking minority in question who racists will call a goblin and say deserves to be genocided, "just like in my le ebin animays". Because the spread of and acceptance of these ideas in the wider culture without pushback is just one more drop in the bucket towards fascism, so I'll point out all the ways in which a show like Goblin Slayer promotes far-right ideas and talking points in the vain, pointless hope that people who watched the show and didn't realize it actually think about what the show is trying to say, and maybe they realize how those messages can be dangerous because too many people are uncritical of the media they consume.
Ask yourself: why do racists 4chan shitheads stan this show so hard?
P.S. Ghostbusters? Really? The movie about how Reagan era deregulation is good actually, where the villain is the EPA and attempting to enforce environmental regulations is what causes the most problems?
I admire Goblin Slayer on how militant he is even after success in vanquishing his enemies, he never underestimates his opponents.
(w/ Japanese entertainment as context)
I also appreciate many right-wing shows(mostly in form). My fave band even said some anticommunist talking points out of context, didn't even expect it. My appreciation mostly ends at form though. They're just fun to watch/fun to listen to.
Critiquing them is even another form of enjoyment! And it's fun to do. Try watching and critiquing Shin Godzilla, for example. Not all entertainment has to affirm your politics for it to be fun(This is a problem especially in watching art by problematic artists. Learn to separate them already).
Watching and dissecting their themes can be even used as a tool to sharpen your own political alignment.
I love Shin Godzilla! One of Anno's best, most politically charged works. His take on US Imperialism was really interesting.
Not all entertainment has to affirm your politics for it to be fun
Of course. What I'm taking issue with the person I'm replying to is their insistence that there aren't any politics present in the text we were discussing.
Edit: Also, it gets a bit harder to Death of the Author when you're the one on the receiving end of the author's political violence. Still possible, but still.
I'm just trying to have a discussion with you because your points are interesting, didn't even notice the ongoing replies.
For me, Shin Godzilla distills Japan's right wing political bent( on reaffirming japanese nationalism). The reccuring anti-American esp. in connection to anti-nuclear sentiment really seals the deal. It's a complex work.
Regarding on the Death of the Author: A fascist statement is still a fascist statement whether attributed or not. If a song sounds misogynist, it's probably misogynist. I don't derive enjoyment from misogyny. I take along the art based on my own valuations and interpretations.
Shit on the author as much as we can. They're the least of our consideration. In the turn of the capitalist condition, we can always repurpose and decontextualize their work. We should and we must separate the author and their work. We are at least entitled to that. Art are mere commodities and should be treated as such.
Really? For me the film's insistence that small technocratic expert committees that eschewed traditional ways of doing things were the only way to tackle crises (Godzilla is basically Fukushima in the movie), along with the tacit acknowledgement that international cooperation was necessary (even in the face of American imperialism) made the film seem very liberal, although I do see your point about edit: an overall Japanese nationalistic tone (didn't finish my sentence haha)
Art are mere commodities and should be treated as such.
I agree with everything else you said, except this. Yes, right now under capitalism the majority of art is mere commodity, but hopefully (eventually) it'll return to what it should be- communication.
It's not demeaning to talk about art as commodity. Just more practical for me to discuss films and art as such in a capitalist system in order to stop revolving the art around the artist as an auteur or singular idealogue.
Commodities are talked about as:
A product of labor and its usefulness. Since labor is already alienated under capitalism, we define art based on its usefulness. I place its spectacularity as its social use. In most cases, if the art doesn't please one's senses first, it's useless for me. Narratives and message come after and should correspond with the spectacular qualities.
Re: Shin Godzilla
It's interesting to note that the UN/USA will have tried help eliminate Godzilla via nuclear launch lol
Maybe the term right-wing is too old-fashioned.
The theme I saw in that film is that the faithful population must be taken care of in the danger of compromise of another nation’s agenda(America). It reaffirms the trust of the people to the government, and is welcoming to anyone who is willing to help their cause. International cooperation should not be conflated with internationalism, and is not rejected by right wing liberalism(Just look the UN and NATO). Liberalism is right-wing. To be Anti-American should also not be conflated with anti-imperialism, as interivalries happen with competing states(Russia and USA, USA and Japan).
The film was delivered void of any annoying political sentiments.
Incidentally, revered Japanese creatives have a far right-wing throughline, like Mishima, Abe and Shuuzo. But it's more likely that we can speculate that Anno is a liberal, although his military fascination disturbs me at times.
He directed my favorite Ghibli film, and favorite short about trains so there's that.
Fuck it, here’s the tl;dr: why do racists 4chan shitheads stan this show so hard?
Idk dawg I literally don't care what 4chan nerds like, it does not matter to me. Makes me think of the Republican/Democrat duopoly and how all Americans view everything in that context. Ahhh the fascists like it, must be fascist!
I think there are like 5 nerds here who think too hard about shit like the big wall of blah blah media literacy i just got from someone else. Someone wanting to write some shit about killing goblins and isn't really thinking too hard about it, just like the people consuming that content, that's just beyond the realm of probability and it must be this fascist dogwhistle propaganda vehicle, lol.
I'm getting these walls of text about how goblins are real world minorities and goblin slayer is the KKK or whatever like my brother in christ it is a goblin it is a fantasy creature it's not like they're fucking coded like the goblins in Harry Potter, like that's actual use of goblins as racial allegory
Don't feel like you gotta write more words at me it's pretty pointless isn't it
More importantly, you can have you creative violence without a highly racialized narrative of heroic genocide and sexualized rape. There is no need to be so defensive about the story because you think the mechanics of their gas chambers are creative.
Is this really a difficult puzzle for you? Ask anyone if the infants on a plantation should be killed and they would probably say no. Goblin Slayer says yes.
Making a race ontologically evil and also coded as "savages" in order to justify genocide is fucked up. You are still reasoning on the level of a character in the setting when the problem is on the level of the author making the rules of the world.
The author made this rule imo literally to head off nerds going "but wait what about all the little gobbos," that's the point of it. Y'all see the rape scene as some author fetish insert, I saw it as the author going "okay how do I establish that they are evil beyond reconciliation so that nerds don't start to ask if the REAL way to slay goblins is FRIENDSHIP"
Im sorry you wish the manga were called Goblin Befriender
Are you the person I talked about this last time with? God fucking damn it
It's like the most standard thing in smutty reactionary writing to have the big, dark skinned savages molest the fair-skinned lady in a way that is both highly sexualized and functions as a causus belli for the protagonists. Have you seen any of SAO's arcs besides the first one and the Asuna-led one? All the others use this trope at some point as foreplay to their revenge porn.
You are displaying a level of media literacy that would have you defending Birth of a Nation if not for social stigma. "Obviously the black people in this setting are ontologically savage to keep you nerds from worrying about the possibility that there are Good Ones! In this universe, the Klan is heroic, so there's nothing wrong with cheering them on!"
There is no questioning of why this is the story the author wants to tell. Why is it along racial lines? Why is it a story of genocide instead of some revenge porn against a specific gang, like happens in Taken? Why do we have our hero be identified primarily as an exterminator of life-unworthy-of-life and not as a protector of the innocent, despite that being the nominal justification of the story? Why is the evil race coded as savage, with dark skin, primitive tools, and ragged clothes? What relationship does a work like this have with the real world? Having people be wronged by goblins and then monomaniacly fixated on ethnic cleansing because they are all bad sure reminds me of something I've heard of before.
the author's being so lazy about what theyre doing with metaphors so it might look kinda racist but its REALLY NOT GUYS!!! and da cool fucken GENOCIDE is done with so much flair :3
I think the eroticized scenes of rape that are just censored versions of established eroguro rape pornographic tropes are more about titillating the audience and at the same time tapping into fears of the racialized 'other' defiling and stealing away 'our women'
than they are for establishing a moral justification for murdering the shit out of goblins, seeing as rpg players do that all the time without ever seeing goblins so much as burn down a house.
Im glad you brought this up because i find it ironic how frequently I see the VIDEO GAME ISEKAI criticized here. This is not a game world and a lot of the graphic violence is meant to underscore that. That is why it's about goblins, since they are usually an "easy" enemy in a videogame, but here in a world without videogame mechanics they are a threat to everyone no matter how high "level"
Ah but nah I guess the author just likes a rapin' and a murderin' and makin people fascist
Uh, yeah, I am indeed saying that the author included the graphic eroticized rape because the author enjoys having the female characters be continuously threatened with eroticized gang rape.
Oh, in universe it is correct to kill the goblins. They are fundamentally evil and incapable of change. The problem is that the author made a story where genocide is the right option.
I havent watched nor read it but according to the 1st chapter, arent the goblins inherently evil mindless beasts like the demons in doom? So technically isnt it not a genocide to slaughter them? Because in this case they are a fantasy enemy which represents the idea of evil right?
Did you know that they were written to be inherently evil to justify a heroic genocide? Really makes you wonder why the author wanted to justify such a thing
They are, not that that is going to stop the same usual nerds from getting big mad about it being fascist slop or whatever
I want to read some Dungeons and Dragons shit where the characters make use of real world physics intersecting with in universe magic to Do Cool Shit. Goblin Slayer has that, and does a good fucking job of it. Connecting a teleportation scroll to the bottom of the ocean to use the water pressure like a laser? Cool. Using flour as a fuel air bomb? Hahaha cool. Sorry certain people are too fucking obsessed with their hatred of media and media tropes to appreciate it because they think the only Good Media would have the main characters idk building communism with the goblins
I almost want to write some parody shit where I basically take one of the posts criticizing "the settler colonialism of [whatever isekai Nerds Mad About]" and transpose everything to being about, idk, Ghostbusters. Are the ghost busters not a proto fascist escapist stand in for the viewer? Are the faceless, 'evil' ghosts not merely stand ins for the colonized indigenous, encouraging the viewer to Do a Genocide? Idk i think it's a good bit. You can't enjoy Ghostbusters anymore, sorry sweaty
Waitwaitwait hold on a second.
So, first of all- you're free to consume problematic media. Reading Mein Kampf or The Turner Diaries doesn't automatically turn you into a Nazi, otherwise we'd have a lot of right wing political graduate students. The only danger these books pose are to those who uncritically accept the author's ideas, and I'm sure there'll be no problems on that front given the general media literacy of people in the anglosphere. If you think there's cool stuff in the show by all means enjoy it.
But Goblin Slayer was written for someone, by someone, to communicate something.
Why are the goblins cunning enough to set traps and ambush people, but too stupid to engage in diplomacy or have their own culture? Hmmmmm, I dunno, my dude Umberto Eco has something to say about that. “[…] the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.” I dunno, seems pretty sus to me...
Why does it open with graphic rape? Oh haha those whacky Japanese and their strange cultural perversions, that's it, it's totally not that fear of sexual assault has a long history of being used to justify racism. It's not as if historically minorities have been lynched on trumped up charges of sexual assault. It must be because the goblins are ontologically evil, the author's not trying to draw some equivalence or something.
If the goblins pose that much of a danger to people, why do the powers that be leave them alone? Why isn't there an organized response by official to deal with them? Why do the powers that be actively suppress information about goblins? Can't possibly be anything to do with conspiracy theories about how the the media in the real world suppresses the real crime statistics that show minorities in a bad light, right? Can't possibly be so that the big, strong MC has to take things into his own hands, go all 'lone wolf' and enact all that cool improvised violence, right? Gotta be a real big damn hero. Oh here comes Eco again: “in Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”
The answer to the above questions, of course, is because the author wrote it like that. So the next thing we need to ask is why. Who could this story possibly be for? I hope I gave sufficient inferences through the sarcasm.
When people criticize art, they aren't attacking you as a person, they're attacking the ideas presented in the texts. I'm not trying to wokescold people into enjoying only Good Communist Approved Media. Me, personally, I call shit like Goblin Slayer out because I'm the fucking minority in question who racists will call a goblin and say deserves to be genocided, "just like in my le ebin animays". Because the spread of and acceptance of these ideas in the wider culture without pushback is just one more drop in the bucket towards fascism, so I'll point out all the ways in which a show like Goblin Slayer promotes far-right ideas and talking points in the vain, pointless hope that people who watched the show and didn't realize it actually think about what the show is trying to say, and maybe they realize how those messages can be dangerous because too many people are uncritical of the media they consume.
Ask yourself: why do racists 4chan shitheads stan this show so hard?
P.S. Ghostbusters? Really? The movie about how Reagan era deregulation is good actually, where the villain is the EPA and attempting to enforce environmental regulations is what causes the most problems?
great post
i'm regularly shocked at the supposed unwillingness of self-described leftists to read. your comment is a 2-3 minute read at average reading speed.
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Anime was a mistake :miyazaki-laugh:
I admire Goblin Slayer on how militant he is even after success in vanquishing his enemies, he never underestimates his opponents.
(w/ Japanese entertainment as context) I also appreciate many right-wing shows(mostly in form). My fave band even said some anticommunist talking points out of context, didn't even expect it. My appreciation mostly ends at form though. They're just fun to watch/fun to listen to.
Critiquing them is even another form of enjoyment! And it's fun to do. Try watching and critiquing Shin Godzilla, for example. Not all entertainment has to affirm your politics for it to be fun(This is a problem especially in watching art by problematic artists. Learn to separate them already).
Watching and dissecting their themes can be even used as a tool to sharpen your own political alignment.
I love Shin Godzilla! One of Anno's best, most politically charged works. His take on US Imperialism was really interesting.
Of course. What I'm taking issue with the person I'm replying to is their insistence that there aren't any politics present in the text we were discussing.
Edit: Also, it gets a bit harder to Death of the Author when you're the one on the receiving end of the author's political violence. Still possible, but still.
I'm just trying to have a discussion with you because your points are interesting, didn't even notice the ongoing replies.
For me, Shin Godzilla distills Japan's right wing political bent( on reaffirming japanese nationalism). The reccuring anti-American esp. in connection to anti-nuclear sentiment really seals the deal. It's a complex work.
Regarding on the Death of the Author: A fascist statement is still a fascist statement whether attributed or not. If a song sounds misogynist, it's probably misogynist. I don't derive enjoyment from misogyny. I take along the art based on my own valuations and interpretations.
Shit on the author as much as we can. They're the least of our consideration. In the turn of the capitalist condition, we can always repurpose and decontextualize their work. We should and we must separate the author and their work. We are at least entitled to that. Art are mere commodities and should be treated as such.
Really? For me the film's insistence that small technocratic expert committees that eschewed traditional ways of doing things were the only way to tackle crises (Godzilla is basically Fukushima in the movie), along with the tacit acknowledgement that international cooperation was necessary (even in the face of American imperialism) made the film seem very liberal, although I do see your point about edit: an overall Japanese nationalistic tone (didn't finish my sentence haha)
I agree with everything else you said, except this. Yes, right now under capitalism the majority of art is mere commodity, but hopefully (eventually) it'll return to what it should be- communication.
It's not demeaning to talk about art as commodity. Just more practical for me to discuss films and art as such in a capitalist system in order to stop revolving the art around the artist as an auteur or singular idealogue.
Commodities are talked about as:
A product of labor and its usefulness. Since labor is already alienated under capitalism, we define art based on its usefulness. I place its spectacularity as its social use. In most cases, if the art doesn't please one's senses first, it's useless for me. Narratives and message come after and should correspond with the spectacular qualities.
Ah, fair enough. I see where you're coming from- strictly in a Marxist sense.
Re: Shin Godzilla It's interesting to note that the UN/USA will have tried help eliminate Godzilla via nuclear launch lol
Maybe the term right-wing is too old-fashioned.
The theme I saw in that film is that the faithful population must be taken care of in the danger of compromise of another nation’s agenda(America). It reaffirms the trust of the people to the government, and is welcoming to anyone who is willing to help their cause. International cooperation should not be conflated with internationalism, and is not rejected by right wing liberalism(Just look the UN and NATO). Liberalism is right-wing. To be Anti-American should also not be conflated with anti-imperialism, as interivalries happen with competing states(Russia and USA, USA and Japan).
The film was delivered void of any annoying political sentiments.
Incidentally, revered Japanese creatives have a far right-wing throughline, like Mishima, Abe and Shuuzo. But it's more likely that we can speculate that Anno is a liberal, although his military fascination disturbs me at times.
He directed my favorite Ghibli film, and favorite short about trains so there's that.
Wow this is a long post
I spend my time to engage in good faith and this is all you got? tl;dr?
Fuck it, here's the tl;dr: why do racists 4chan shitheads stan this show so hard?
Idk dawg I literally don't care what 4chan nerds like, it does not matter to me. Makes me think of the Republican/Democrat duopoly and how all Americans view everything in that context. Ahhh the fascists like it, must be fascist!
In your opinion, why do you think Hexbear doesn't stan this show? Partisanship? Virtue signaling?
You have the patience of a saint
:rat-salute:
I think there are like 5 nerds here who think too hard about shit like the big wall of blah blah media literacy i just got from someone else. Someone wanting to write some shit about killing goblins and isn't really thinking too hard about it, just like the people consuming that content, that's just beyond the realm of probability and it must be this fascist dogwhistle propaganda vehicle, lol.
I'm getting these walls of text about how goblins are real world minorities and goblin slayer is the KKK or whatever like my brother in christ it is a goblin it is a fantasy creature it's not like they're fucking coded like the goblins in Harry Potter, like that's actual use of goblins as racial allegory
Don't feel like you gotta write more words at me it's pretty pointless isn't it
Ok, so you think a minority of posters on Hexbear are over-analyzing the show and are seeing Nazi ghosts where there are none. Ok.
Why do you think the goblins in Goblin Slayer aren't coded like the goblins in Harry Potter?
Media about extermination of subhumans is enjoyed by nazis, news at 11
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4chan likes my little pony, therefore I posit that Friendship is not Magic, but rather it is fascist
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Learn to read my nuts
idk they have a point
🙄
I've read a bit of the manga and, uh, no it does not
🙄
More importantly, you can have you creative violence without a highly racialized narrative of heroic genocide and sexualized rape. There is no need to be so defensive about the story because you think the mechanics of their gas chambers are creative.
I love how hexbear is mad about genocide of rapists. What if they were a species of slave owners :thinkin-lenin:
Is this really a difficult puzzle for you? Ask anyone if the infants on a plantation should be killed and they would probably say no. Goblin Slayer says yes.
Making a race ontologically evil and also coded as "savages" in order to justify genocide is fucked up. You are still reasoning on the level of a character in the setting when the problem is on the level of the author making the rules of the world.
The author made this rule imo literally to head off nerds going "but wait what about all the little gobbos," that's the point of it. Y'all see the rape scene as some author fetish insert, I saw it as the author going "okay how do I establish that they are evil beyond reconciliation so that nerds don't start to ask if the REAL way to slay goblins is FRIENDSHIP"
Im sorry you wish the manga were called Goblin Befriender
Are you the person I talked about this last time with? God fucking damn it
It's like the most standard thing in smutty reactionary writing to have the big, dark skinned savages molest the fair-skinned lady in a way that is both highly sexualized and functions as a causus belli for the protagonists. Have you seen any of SAO's arcs besides the first one and the Asuna-led one? All the others use this trope at some point as foreplay to their revenge porn.
You are displaying a level of media literacy that would have you defending Birth of a Nation if not for social stigma. "Obviously the black people in this setting are ontologically savage to keep you nerds from worrying about the possibility that there are Good Ones! In this universe, the Klan is heroic, so there's nothing wrong with cheering them on!"
There is no questioning of why this is the story the author wants to tell. Why is it along racial lines? Why is it a story of genocide instead of some revenge porn against a specific gang, like happens in Taken? Why do we have our hero be identified primarily as an exterminator of life-unworthy-of-life and not as a protector of the innocent, despite that being the nominal justification of the story? Why is the evil race coded as savage, with dark skin, primitive tools, and ragged clothes? What relationship does a work like this have with the real world? Having people be wronged by goblins and then monomaniacly fixated on ethnic cleansing because they are all bad sure reminds me of something I've heard of before.
I think the eroticized scenes of rape that are just censored versions of established eroguro rape pornographic tropes are more about titillating the audience and at the same time tapping into fears of the racialized 'other' defiling and stealing away 'our women'
than they are for establishing a moral justification for murdering the shit out of goblins, seeing as rpg players do that all the time without ever seeing goblins so much as burn down a house.
This
is this
Im glad you brought this up because i find it ironic how frequently I see the VIDEO GAME ISEKAI criticized here. This is not a game world and a lot of the graphic violence is meant to underscore that. That is why it's about goblins, since they are usually an "easy" enemy in a videogame, but here in a world without videogame mechanics they are a threat to everyone no matter how high "level"
Ah but nah I guess the author just likes a rapin' and a murderin' and makin people fascist
I think people see what they want to
Uh, yeah, I am indeed saying that the author included the graphic eroticized rape because the author enjoys having the female characters be continuously threatened with eroticized gang rape.
Those two things are not mutually exclusive???
Oh, in universe it is correct to kill the goblins. They are fundamentally evil and incapable of change. The problem is that the author made a story where genocide is the right option.
Comrade, what does the right say about us?