What we're trying to say is that under FALGSC, men could abandon their families freely. Except we're saying it with the understanding that FALGSC is the wild-eyed pie-in-the-sky dream version of communism.
Edit: On reflection, my phrasing here in 'abandon their families' is overtly flippant and revealing of my internal biases. However, the point I was trying to get across is the same as the point illustrated in this comment. Under the absolute perfect Marxist economic system, expressed here (with an irreverence that might be the root of a lot of problems in my life, come to think of it) as FALGSC, it would be far more acceptable to leave parenting to one individual because it wouldn't be anywhere near as damaging to that kid's upbringing.
Where does this idea of “abandoning your family” come from?
I keep seeing people say that in this thread and it reeks of Republican “family values” bullshit. We’re not talking about a dad going to get cigarettes and never returning to his 3 kids and a wife, we’re talking about a guy who’s told by a hookup or short term relationship that she’s pregnant and wants to keep the baby. There’s no family there!
Yeah, it's just patriarchy being redressed as 'protecting women' somehow, as if patriarchy didn't have laws like this about men having to care/provide for some women like this already. Also seems to come off as weirdly anti-abortion/pro-life because they can't differentiate between potential children (before birth, subject to possible abortion) and real children (after birth, not subject to abortion, hopefully).
Paying child support is not the same as being a father, end of.
not paying child support is punishable
You vastly overestimate how cut-and-dry the legal system is on this matter. My mom actually sued my 'donor' over failure to pay child support and the court sided with him because he lived in poverty.
You pay child support because the state recognizes you as the father of the child. This happens wether or not you consent to be a parent. Depending on the place you’re in, there will also be additional responsibilites.
I asked you for an example of somebody who was forced into fatherhood IRL. You responded with a hypothetical person who exists only within the legal framework of child support. This is not engaging in good faith.
So if you've knocked someone up and are having anxieties about it, maybe come at it from that angle instead of this delusional "But men!" angle.
What are you even talking about? Where have I made this personal or about my worries for myself?
Normal people don't just enter debate bro mode like this. This is a defence mechanism, and I know because I used to do it too. If you're not willing to admit you're not in a good place, I'm not willing to continue this discussion.
M8, when I said paying child support =/= being a father, you said it was the same under the law. You completely ignored the fact that fathering takes more than just money so you could move the goalposts from me. You never defined your terms and yet you seriously expect me to believe you're engaging in good faith?
Also in the time it took me to phrase this comment, you changed the one I was replying to 3 times. You're literally making it up as you go.
Opinions discarded. Enjoy your child support anxieties.
Honestly from an outsider in this discussion it looks like your arguments are purely reactionary and crumble at even the slightest questioning. The result is you get mad and call the other guy a debatebro.
Alright, I'll fess up to being biased and flippant in my phrasing with "Abandon their families". Otherwise, what I was saying in my first comment is the same as this one, but in fewer words
You're putting the cart before the horse if you're talking about "what if socialized child support" in the context of arguing about financial abortions.
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What we're trying to say is that under FALGSC, men could abandon their families freely. Except we're saying it with the understanding that FALGSC is the wild-eyed pie-in-the-sky dream version of communism.
Edit: On reflection, my phrasing here in 'abandon their families' is overtly flippant and revealing of my internal biases. However, the point I was trying to get across is the same as the point illustrated in this comment. Under the absolute perfect Marxist economic system, expressed here (with an irreverence that might be the root of a lot of problems in my life, come to think of it) as FALGSC, it would be far more acceptable to leave parenting to one individual because it wouldn't be anywhere near as damaging to that kid's upbringing.
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I keep seeing people say that in this thread and it reeks of Republican “family values” bullshit. We’re not talking about a dad going to get cigarettes and never returning to his 3 kids and a wife, we’re talking about a guy who’s told by a hookup or short term relationship that she’s pregnant and wants to keep the baby. There’s no family there!
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Yeah, it's just patriarchy being redressed as 'protecting women' somehow, as if patriarchy didn't have laws like this about men having to care/provide for some women like this already. Also seems to come off as weirdly anti-abortion/pro-life because they can't differentiate between potential children (before birth, subject to possible abortion) and real children (after birth, not subject to abortion, hopefully).
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How? You have literally never given an example of somebody forced to be a father.
Which law? Where was this law when my father walked out?
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Paying child support is not the same as being a father, end of.
You vastly overestimate how cut-and-dry the legal system is on this matter. My mom actually sued my 'donor' over failure to pay child support and the court sided with him because he lived in poverty.
I asked you for an example of somebody who was forced into fatherhood IRL. You responded with a hypothetical person who exists only within the legal framework of child support. This is not engaging in good faith.
So if you've knocked someone up and are having anxieties about it, maybe come at it from that angle instead of this delusional "But men!" angle.
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Normal people don't just enter debate bro mode like this. This is a defence mechanism, and I know because I used to do it too. If you're not willing to admit you're not in a good place, I'm not willing to continue this discussion.
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M8, when I said paying child support =/= being a father, you said it was the same under the law. You completely ignored the fact that fathering takes more than just money so you could move the goalposts from me. You never defined your terms and yet you seriously expect me to believe you're engaging in good faith?
Also in the time it took me to phrase this comment, you changed the one I was replying to 3 times. You're literally making it up as you go.
Opinions discarded. Enjoy your child support anxieties.
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:farquaad-point:
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Honestly from an outsider in this discussion it looks like your arguments are purely reactionary and crumble at even the slightest questioning. The result is you get mad and call the other guy a debatebro.
Alright, I'll fess up to being biased and flippant in my phrasing with "Abandon their families". Otherwise, what I was saying in my first comment is the same as this one, but in fewer words
You're putting the cart before the horse if you're talking about "what if socialized child support" in the context of arguing about financial abortions.
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