On the topic of Muslims though, he's also actively facilitating a genocide of a majority Muslim nation, even circumventing Congress to do so.
If your litmus test for what candidate to support is 'which one might be the least terrible', and that test leads you to actively support the one running guns and giving diplomatic cover to a nation engaging in ethnic cleansing, I think you need to re-evaluate things. And you are actively supporting him because you're in here defending him. The president who is enabling mass murder.
"Oh but Trump would do it too" that isn't a defense for why Biden is doing it.
Moving goal post. One is dealing with a massive influx of migrants the other was used for "terriost".
Do we need to redo our immigration process? Absolutely, speaking from experience. Can we allow uncontrolled numbers from coming into the us? No. Is biden doing the best thing for the southern border. I'm not sure, experts seems to say no.
Only took 2 contentious replies for them to go from 'religious ban bad' to 'uncontrolled immigrants are a problem'.
And they claim to be a succdem lmao, they're not even that, they're an embarrassed conservative. Even most liberals don't like this policy, it's why 'most experts' by their own admission are against it. r/politics buries most articles on it.
So labeling the "massive influx of migrants" as a "national security risk" like Biden has done, doesn't count as a continuation and in fact enlargement of the previous "terriost" policy, why is one right the other wrong in your books? Is it because the team you don't like did one and the team you do like did the other?
Can we allow uncontrolled numbers from coming into the us? No
So you believe imaginary lines in the sand are sacrosanct, even if it means putting people in concentrations camps, dividing families and enlarging the power of the state to literally hunt people for glorified jaywalking?
I'm looking at tens of thousands of people crossing over without a proper support system setup. I'm looking at people that will be targeted and have higher rates of abuse. Not everything in the world is black and white.
So you believe denying those people asylum, putting them in concentration camps, separating them from their families, labeling them criminals and national security threats and sending them back to death and absolute poverty is actually the state helping them? Is that seriously your claim?
You don't understand, there's a wormhole that's producing 5.8e14 immigrants daily at the southern border. We don't know where they came from and it shows no signs of stopping. There is no way we can possible manage those many people.
Ah wait, Blackrock actually has bought up those many vacant homes anyway, so we could handle it, but that would make line go down.
The post was about shutting down the border and deporting everyone, so...yeah I guess I 'moved the goal post' from where you already moved it to be ('muslim ban'), but Biden is quite literally doing that, and he drew inspiration from that ban.
No. Is biden doing the best thing for the southern border. I'm not sure, experts seems to say no.
Then why are you here vehemently defending him and his fucking awful policies? Do you think you're changing anyone's mind? Or are you trying to convince yourself?
I pointed out how trump made this by targeting people not a problem. Biden tried to let congress resolve the border issue and they didn't. He used the same tactic that trump did. Neither is right but we also have an issue with our southern border. I get you want the world to burn but that usually cost lives in the process. One I think you're not ready to give up.
lmao what? I 'want the world to burn'? Why, because I don't think "shutting down the southern border until we figure this thing out" is acceptable under either admin?
is that the right link for the attorney general arguing indefinite detainment? I didn't see it at the linked article which seems to be about ending MPP
Neither is right but we also have an issue with our southern border
What's the issue? Are you under the mistaken impression the US can't absorb an additional 1, 5, 10, 100 million people, a country that has given in the last year over 200 billion dollars in military aid to fascist regimes all over the world? Are you making a Malthusian argument? A eugenics argument? Or do you bear racial animus towards people of Hispanic heritage specifically?
yes the US can and should allow in anyone who wants to be there. the US government has caused most of the problems causing people to flee their homes... and the country was founded by "uncontrolled numbers [..] coming in" in the first place.
Can we allow uncontrolled numbers from coming into the us? No.
the "migrant crisis" is fascist propaganda that has exclusively been utilised to justify state brutality towards the most vulnerable section of society and to dehumanise anybody considered "not american enough" (immigrant or otherwise) in the US.
The goal posts are buried in 500 hundred feet of concrete, right in front of human rights, but unfortunately biden drove a fleet of mlrs platforms in front of the goal and aimed them at aid workers and civilians
Difference was that when trump was in charge, there was wall to wall coverage of the atrocities US was committing. Then when genocide joe got in charge, crickets.
He said the line!
Hey grown up, your very serious Last Bulwark Against Fascism is shitting his depends and committing a genocide. You're a genocide supporter. You'll never get clean from this.
If you have a better polical system to replace this one then the floor is yours.
I do, it's called communism and it's what lifted over 800 million people out of poverty in China in just the past few decades. One has to be laughably ignorant to even ask such an absurd question.
China is a capitalism. China also has camps for Muslims and a 1 child policy that murdered a lot of kids. They have a system that watches their people and rates them.
China is not a capitalism, but given your other comments it's not surprising that you have no clue about China. Maybe spend a bit of time educating yourself instead of spewing nonsense on topics you have no clue about.
if the mode of production gets some blame for individual crimes (as it should) this comparison is not going to come out in favor of capitalism. you just ignore the lives that were improved by socialist policy and ignore social murder when it's done by capitalists. (btw the 1 child policy ended in 2016, your information is out of date)
Awesome, yeah, you're so right! I'm going to go vote in an American socialist to be president. Oh, you're telling me that the entire American political establishment has made this course of action impossible by setting all manner of social institutions, from the press to the criminal justice system, in direct opposition to socialism? You're telling me every single attempt to establish socialism by democratic means has been subverted and squashed by military operations backed by the US government and the US intelligence apparatus? And that these blatant affronts against democracy are still celebrated by reactionaries in Guatemala and Chile who spent decades murdering leftists for their brief time as the dominant political group, for the horrible crime of putting the means of production in the hands of peasants and workers?
You're telling me that the only successful attempts at establishing a proletarian state had to "anti-democratically" suppress bourgeois political parties to maintain stability in the face of American imperialists? And that all avenues of peaceful revolution have been tried and inevitably lead to the forceful encounter and resolution of the historical dialectic between classes through violent revolution, just as much as this was the case in every major change of mode of production in history?
Dear golly me then, looks like those Marxists in Palestine, Cuba, the Philippines, Laos, Vietnam, the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Burkina Faso, South Africa, Angola, and countless other countries that fought off colonizers aren't just savages who weren't capable of understanding the noble ways of the Western Left, and liberal democracy isn't the way for workers to achieve political power. You're not going to dismantle the master's house with the master's tools.
Buddy you are not doing democratic socialism any favors by being a racist piece of shit condemning immigration and then labeling yourself as a democratic socialist.
The people here already have a very very poor view of democratic socialism and you could not have just done a better job of reinforcing their point.
Funny BC I see a lot of news about biden, isreal, and Palestine.
So there's wall to wall anti-Israel coverage of the genocide from the mainstream media? There's no media support for Biden and Israel, and all the outlets are reporting the atrocities accurately and with the appropriate language? So basically there's no pro-genocide media anywhere to be seen in the west, is that your claim?
You know news is global now in days. We have the internet. Yes, there is coverage of what isreal is doing and how the US is supporting the genocide in the Gaza. Also how other countries are also supporting isreal.
Now does the US have a media monopoly problem that is supported by certain groups? Absolutely. Your point is both do it but one gets a pass which is not true.
There's only like 3 major news outlet that are covering the conflict without just taking the IDF at their word: Al Jazeera, Middle East Eye, and sometimes Reuters. Al Jazeera has been the best but Israel has banned them from reporting in Israel. The US State Media has continued to report lies about the genocide like Hamas being the aggressor here, Oct 7th being unprovoked, etc. They fail to report on major events like Israel's strikes on aid convoys, schools, and hospitals, yet when they do report on these conflicts they get their lines from the IDF who claim these civilian targets are Hamas, or that Hamas is using them as shields.
Acting like the media has been fair or free with regards to this genocide is pretty unhinged, you have to admit that they're 100% complicit and that it's very difficult for people who aren't already clued in to left Tik Tok or other sources of news from a left wing perspective to get an accurate view of what's happening.
Cmon man. Mainstream press has been nonstop talking about how Biden is upset at Netanyahu, how he gave him a stern talking to, how Rafah invasion would have been a red line, how he is trying to broker a peace deal (that Hamas put forth and Israel outright rejected), etc. etc. while Biden is giving Israel god knows how many tonnes of bombs per day. If you think Biden is getting the heat he deserves for perpetrating a genocide then you are off your rockers. If it wasn't for the multitude brave protestors the media would have probably even cheered for Biden's role in this brutal ethnic cleansing.
So you're saying liberals would support Trump like they support Biden and publicly back everything the cheeto does because their "way of life and money aren't affected"?
So Biden and Trump are equally popular and liberals don't care who wins?
So you're saying that I'm say that everyone likes both the same?
No, if we had a more "extreme" canadate that supported higher taxes on wealthy, more social programs/finances for needy, build houses for homeless, tax corporate greed, and stop being the center of everyone else's world, yes they will flip to his side.
Awesome, I thought again, and the genocide is still happening. Looks like failing to think beyond electoral politics is useless as always.
If all the choices you've been offered lead to countless children getting slaughtered to make Lockheed Martin and Boeing more money, you have a human duty to reject that system and wield political power outside of it you spineless lib.
So when Biden expands the border policies that just 4 years ago a lot of libs could get together to agree were genocidal, it's perfectly fine because it's done on the basis of general racist assertions that immigrants are criminals instead of specific Islamophobic tropes? There's nothing wrong with border patrol officers deciding to send people to starve, deporting them into conflict stricken regions, and separating families, just as long as these things are done to all brown people, not just Muslims? We wouldn't want to discriminate, would we?
One banned people due to religion the other didn't.
Good point, he didn't.
Biden used it to structure the new 'migrant bill' he's going to sign.
On the topic of Muslims though, he's also actively facilitating a genocide of a majority Muslim nation, even circumventing Congress to do so.
If your litmus test for what candidate to support is 'which one might be the least terrible', and that test leads you to actively support the one running guns and giving diplomatic cover to a nation engaging in ethnic cleansing, I think you need to re-evaluate things. And you are actively supporting him because you're in here defending him. The president who is enabling mass murder.
"Oh but Trump would do it too" that isn't a defense for why Biden is doing it.
Moving goal post. One is dealing with a massive influx of migrants the other was used for "terriost".
Do we need to redo our immigration process? Absolutely, speaking from experience. Can we allow uncontrolled numbers from coming into the us? No. Is biden doing the best thing for the southern border. I'm not sure, experts seems to say no.
racist snake.
Only took 2 contentious replies for them to go from 'religious ban bad' to 'uncontrolled immigrants are a problem'.
And they claim to be a succdem lmao, they're not even that, they're an embarrassed conservative. Even most liberals don't like this policy, it's why 'most experts' by their own admission are against it. r/politics buries most articles on it.
This idiot is just an out and about racist.
Well what else were they supposed to do? They got scratched! They really had no other options.
So labeling the "massive influx of migrants" as a "national security risk" like Biden has done, doesn't count as a continuation and in fact enlargement of the previous "terriost" policy, why is one right the other wrong in your books? Is it because the team you don't like did one and the team you do like did the other?
So you believe imaginary lines in the sand are sacrosanct, even if it means putting people in concentrations camps, dividing families and enlarging the power of the state to literally hunt people for glorified jaywalking?
I don't think he is even from the US he's on a .de site which makes this somehow funnier.
A German who's a massive racist particularly to immigrants?
First time for everything huh
they are not racist, they love döner
We've been talking to a racist sauerkraut this whole time?!
Well not anymore I guess
idk why we're federated with that shithole site I've literally never seen a poster from there who wasn't like this
Low level lib grinding zone
prologue instance
I'm looking at tens of thousands of people crossing over without a proper support system setup. I'm looking at people that will be targeted and have higher rates of abuse. Not everything in the world is black and white.
So then the answer is to set up that support system and punish those that would target vulnerable migrants right?
Oh no? You just want to punish people fleeing from violence and impoverishment inflicted on them by our own foreign policy?
Cool. Face the wall please.
How about we deport you to make room?
So you believe denying those people asylum, putting them in concentration camps, separating them from their families, labeling them criminals and national security threats and sending them back to death and absolute poverty is actually the state helping them? Is that seriously your claim?
Why not?
You don't understand, there's a wormhole that's producing 5.8e14 immigrants daily at the southern border. We don't know where they came from and it shows no signs of stopping. There is no way we can possible manage those many people.
Ah wait, Blackrock actually has bought up those many vacant homes anyway, so we could handle it, but that would make line go down.
Okay, I actually would be worried about immigration at 5.8e14 immigrants a day.
Thankfully for all of us, the finance imperialist ghouls have been playing real estate cookie clicker so it's not even a concern.
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it's because they aren't white
when people say scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds they're talking about you, jackass
The post was about shutting down the border and deporting everyone, so...yeah I guess I 'moved the goal post' from where you already moved it to be ('muslim ban'), but Biden is quite literally doing that, and he drew inspiration from that ban.
Then why are you here vehemently defending him and his fucking awful policies? Do you think you're changing anyone's mind? Or are you trying to convince yourself?
I pointed out how trump made this by targeting people not a problem. Biden tried to let congress resolve the border issue and they didn't. He used the same tactic that trump did. Neither is right but we also have an issue with our southern border. I get you want the world to burn but that usually cost lives in the process. One I think you're not ready to give up.
lmao what? I 'want the world to burn'? Why, because I don't think "shutting down the southern border until we figure this thing out" is acceptable under either admin?
Biden is giving border patrol more money then Trump ever was, after campaigning on how inhumane it was. Biden's attorney general argued to the Supreme Court that migrants can be indefinitely detained. Biden is signing an EO limiting migrants (only ones coming from the southern border). Biden is on record saying, in 2006 well before 'we have a problem at the border' that he thinks we need a wall.
You're talking about human beings asshole, who are also less likely to commit crimes. Keep spitting up conservative propaganda though.
Do you lot have the AOC crying at the fence as an emoji?
I think we do, but I can't remember what it's called
*removed externally hosted image*
is that the right link for the attorney general arguing indefinite detainment? I didn't see it at the linked article which seems to be about ending MPP
Ah, you right, I got heated and got my links messed up
This is what I should've used
What's the issue? Are you under the mistaken impression the US can't absorb an additional 1, 5, 10, 100 million people, a country that has given in the last year over 200 billion dollars in military aid to fascist regimes all over the world? Are you making a Malthusian argument? A eugenics argument? Or do you bear racial animus towards people of Hispanic heritage specifically?
Weird how if you turn off all the conservative propaganda that problem disappears
yes the US can and should allow in anyone who wants to be there. the US government has caused most of the problems causing people to flee their homes... and the country was founded by "uncontrolled numbers [..] coming in" in the first place.
the "migrant crisis" is fascist propaganda that has exclusively been utilised to justify state brutality towards the most vulnerable section of society and to dehumanise anybody considered "not american enough" (immigrant or otherwise) in the US.
The goal posts are buried in 500 hundred feet of concrete, right in front of human rights, but unfortunately biden drove a fleet of mlrs platforms in front of the goal and aimed them at aid workers and civilians
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moving goal posts is when he does the thing
Go fuck yourself, lib
One is conducting a genocide and the other didn't.
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If you think trump would be different, think again.
So what you're saying is you are a genocide supporter. Thank you for your honesty
Yup that is my stance. You got me.
Difference was that when trump was in charge, there was wall to wall coverage of the atrocities US was committing. Then when genocide joe got in charge, crickets.
Funny BC I see a lot of news about biden, isreal, and Palestine.
Now your argument that the media hyperfocused on trump for ratings is accurate. He is a lightning rod for views BC you either love or hate him.
If you have a better polical system to replace this one then the floor is yours.
Do you have any idea where you are
Great point, correct this and let the grown ups talk. They're
Anyone who disagrees with me must be a child. I'm very intelligent.
He said the line!
Hey grown up, your very serious Last Bulwark Against Fascism is shitting his depends and committing a genocide. You're a genocide supporter. You'll never get clean from this.
you should follow your own advice kiddo
I do, it's called communism and it's what lifted over 800 million people out of poverty in China in just the past few decades. One has to be laughably ignorant to even ask such an absurd question.
China is a capitalism. China also has camps for Muslims and a 1 child policy that murdered a lot of kids. They have a system that watches their people and rates them.
China is not a capitalism, but given your other comments it's not surprising that you have no clue about China. Maybe spend a bit of time educating yourself instead of spewing nonsense on topics you have no clue about.
no they aren't.
no they don't. you are Hui off base.
if the mode of production gets some blame for individual crimes (as it should) this comparison is not going to come out in favor of capitalism. you just ignore the lives that were improved by socialist policy and ignore social murder when it's done by capitalists. (btw the 1 child policy ended in 2016, your information is out of date)
:snowden:
shit someone call Robert FICO
Fun fact but the Uighers, along with every other ethnic minority in China, were historically exempt from the 1 child policy
If you had a brain this would lead you to question whether or not China is actually conducting a genocide
However,
For folks passing through:
https://redsails.org/china-has-billionaires/
https://dessalines.github.io/essays/socialism_faq.html#on-mao-maoism-and-marxism-leninism-maoism-and-the-prc
Democratic socialism is a better system.
Awesome, yeah, you're so right! I'm going to go vote in an American socialist to be president. Oh, you're telling me that the entire American political establishment has made this course of action impossible by setting all manner of social institutions, from the press to the criminal justice system, in direct opposition to socialism? You're telling me every single attempt to establish socialism by democratic means has been subverted and squashed by military operations backed by the US government and the US intelligence apparatus? And that these blatant affronts against democracy are still celebrated by reactionaries in Guatemala and Chile who spent decades murdering leftists for their brief time as the dominant political group, for the horrible crime of putting the means of production in the hands of peasants and workers?
You're telling me that the only successful attempts at establishing a proletarian state had to "anti-democratically" suppress bourgeois political parties to maintain stability in the face of American imperialists? And that all avenues of peaceful revolution have been tried and inevitably lead to the forceful encounter and resolution of the historical dialectic between classes through violent revolution, just as much as this was the case in every major change of mode of production in history?
Dear golly me then, looks like those Marxists in Palestine, Cuba, the Philippines, Laos, Vietnam, the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Burkina Faso, South Africa, Angola, and countless other countries that fought off colonizers aren't just savages who weren't capable of understanding the noble ways of the Western Left, and liberal democracy isn't the way for workers to achieve political power. You're not going to dismantle the master's house with the master's tools.
how to say you're historically illiterate without saying you're historically illiterate
I'm sure you will find away
you've already done it masterfully
Let me guess that "way" involves voting for democrats every election and punching left?
How original.
Buddy you are not doing democratic socialism any favors by being a racist piece of shit condemning immigration and then labeling yourself as a democratic socialist.
The people here already have a very very poor view of democratic socialism and you could not have just done a better job of reinforcing their point.
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sorry, i thought you were a chud but i was mistaken, should have realised you are a liberal
So there's wall to wall anti-Israel coverage of the genocide from the mainstream media? There's no media support for Biden and Israel, and all the outlets are reporting the atrocities accurately and with the appropriate language? So basically there's no pro-genocide media anywhere to be seen in the west, is that your claim?
You know news is global now in days. We have the internet. Yes, there is coverage of what isreal is doing and how the US is supporting the genocide in the Gaza. Also how other countries are also supporting isreal.
Now does the US have a media monopoly problem that is supported by certain groups? Absolutely. Your point is both do it but one gets a pass which is not true.
so no, you dont see it from the mainstream media.
Reuters? BBC? Al Jazeera? NPR? PBS? All pretty mainstream.
Reauters, BBC, NPR, PBS are anti-Israel and anti-genocide? Is that your claim?
eating from the trashcan, all the time.
There's only like 3 major news outlet that are covering the conflict without just taking the IDF at their word: Al Jazeera, Middle East Eye, and sometimes Reuters. Al Jazeera has been the best but Israel has banned them from reporting in Israel. The US State Media has continued to report lies about the genocide like Hamas being the aggressor here, Oct 7th being unprovoked, etc. They fail to report on major events like Israel's strikes on aid convoys, schools, and hospitals, yet when they do report on these conflicts they get their lines from the IDF who claim these civilian targets are Hamas, or that Hamas is using them as shields.
Acting like the media has been fair or free with regards to this genocide is pretty unhinged, you have to admit that they're 100% complicit and that it's very difficult for people who aren't already clued in to left Tik Tok or other sources of news from a left wing perspective to get an accurate view of what's happening.
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Cmon man. Mainstream press has been nonstop talking about how Biden is upset at Netanyahu, how he gave him a stern talking to, how Rafah invasion would have been a red line, how he is trying to broker a peace deal (that Hamas put forth and Israel outright rejected), etc. etc. while Biden is giving Israel god knows how many tonnes of bombs per day. If you think Biden is getting the heat he deserves for perpetrating a genocide then you are off your rockers. If it wasn't for the multitude brave protestors the media would have probably even cheered for Biden's role in this brutal ethnic cleansing.
Would liberals support Trump like they support Biden?
Most liberals are white people that pretend to support social issues as long as it's not in their neighborhood. So yes
So your argument is liberals secretly support Trump and would publicly back everything he does?
No my argument is certain people like to hold fake banners as long as their way of life and money aren't affected.
So you're saying liberals would support Trump like they support Biden and publicly back everything the cheeto does because their "way of life and money aren't affected"?
So Biden and Trump are equally popular and liberals don't care who wins?
So you're saying that I'm say that everyone likes both the same?
No, if we had a more "extreme" canadate that supported higher taxes on wealthy, more social programs/finances for needy, build houses for homeless, tax corporate greed, and stop being the center of everyone else's world, yes they will flip to his side.
So now actually most liberals are progressives-in-waiting and they wouldn't back Trump's pro-genocide stance, is that your claim?
This person doesn’t have enough processing power to have a claim.
Sometimes you just gotta beat a motherfucker over the head with Socrates, no reason to argue with someone when they can argue with themselves
what no understanding of politics does to a motherfucker
Awesome, I thought again, and the genocide is still happening. Looks like failing to think beyond electoral politics is useless as always.
If all the choices you've been offered lead to countless children getting slaughtered to make Lockheed Martin and Boeing more money, you have a human duty to reject that system and wield political power outside of it you spineless lib.
So when Biden expands the border policies that just 4 years ago a lot of libs could get together to agree were genocidal, it's perfectly fine because it's done on the basis of general racist assertions that immigrants are criminals instead of specific Islamophobic tropes? There's nothing wrong with border patrol officers deciding to send people to starve, deporting them into conflict stricken regions, and separating families, just as long as these things are done to all brown people, not just Muslims? We wouldn't want to discriminate, would we?
So we should welcome trump back? I don't get your point.
You're already welcoming and defending the worst version of what you think trump could be and do.
No, both of them deserve the
But I don't know why you're going to bat to defend Biden.
discuss.tchncs.de continuing to be an instance of brain dead MSNBC liberals
Daily reminder the world will never know peace until "Germany" is rightfully partitioned into thousands of feuding principalities.
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