Also, I’m too young to know the answer to this, but what effect do we think internet porn has had on spawning a generation of incels?
Some effect, but likely a negligible one. Most dudes of childrearing age, cause I'm not gonna sit here and act like they're all fathers even if they sired a child-- most dudes won't cop to it, but Gen Xers and boomers are where this started. They taught their boys a very specific way that offshot of the way they acted, even if what they SAID ran contrary. It's what their fathers did that these incels want to emulate, not what they said.
I'm speaking from personal experience here; because I was once very much the same way. One bad relationship with a cheat had me misogynistic as fuck at one point in my life; and what I fell back on was all of the maladaptive, machismo-type bullshit my father lived by. "Never let a hoe fuck with your money", "never trust a hoe with your feelings", the whole nine-- and this experience is what kind of. I might verbally john on incels every so often, but I consider it genuinely tragic because they were maladaptively socialized for a society that is quite literally disintegrating in real time.
tl;dr I think it might tweak the dynamics of the incel/manosphere, but not in a way that'd undo the phenomenon. If anything, you're gonna see more Andrew Tate-alikes who talk about porn and masturbation being mentally or spiritually crippling, but still keep up all the regressive misogyny if not stronger because dollars-to-donuts says they'll just default to "blame women" for why the porn is gone. (Despite all their slagging of OnlyFans models.)
just watching movies from the 80s and 90s is enough to see how incel-type behaviour not only existed, but was somewhat normalized as "romantic protagonist" behaviour
You could probably argue that what makes the incel is the rupture from the rest of society not accepting that behavior from all men. The friction between men who want the benefits of the patriarchy without the downsides, and the rest of everyone, including those who want the end of the patriarchy as well as those who are okay with the status quo, is what creates incels as a specific group.
I don't think it's a gen x or boomer thing, I think there have always been men we'd now identify as incels in patriarchal society, as it's the logical end point of male sexual entitlement. The way we describe them has changed, but ideas like women not being able to be trusted with money or men not showing their feelings go back hundreds, if not thousands of years. I think what's really changed is the internet has given those people somewhere to gather and jerk themselves off about how unfair it is, intensifying their persecution complexes and causing them to act out more.
I don’t think it’s a gen x or boomer thing, I think there have always been men we’d now identify as incels in patriarchal society, as it’s the logical end point of male sexual entitlement.
This is a pretty good macro-level way to look at it, I'm just trying to keep my lens fixed to recent history, y'know, likening/affixing the concept to 'sources' (even if not primary sources) that we all know and can identify immediately in our orbits. It's absolutely the logical endpoint, but to me, at the point where it affects us all, I see it all starts again with each man that COULD have broken that cycle, but couldn't even be incentivized to.
Cause there WERE some that actually tried NOT to; I've seen them, I've met them, but I've also seen their kids just totally go sides-up from proper teaching and acting to sink into this incel shit because of the crowd the kid keeps-- and the cycle in their bloodline starts again with the kid that went sideways, y'know?
Ah, I see what you mean, I'd misinterpreted you as saying the wider phenomenon only started with genx/boomers. Definitely agree with everything you've said, then.
Some effect, but likely a negligible one. Most dudes of childrearing age, cause I'm not gonna sit here and act like they're all fathers even if they sired a child-- most dudes won't cop to it, but Gen Xers and boomers are where this started. They taught their boys a very specific way that offshot of the way they acted, even if what they SAID ran contrary. It's what their fathers did that these incels want to emulate, not what they said.
I'm speaking from personal experience here; because I was once very much the same way. One bad relationship with a cheat had me misogynistic as fuck at one point in my life; and what I fell back on was all of the maladaptive, machismo-type bullshit my father lived by. "Never let a hoe fuck with your money", "never trust a hoe with your feelings", the whole nine-- and this experience is what kind of. I might verbally john on incels every so often, but I consider it genuinely tragic because they were maladaptively socialized for a society that is quite literally disintegrating in real time.
tl;dr I think it might tweak the dynamics of the incel/manosphere, but not in a way that'd undo the phenomenon. If anything, you're gonna see more Andrew Tate-alikes who talk about porn and masturbation being mentally or spiritually crippling, but still keep up all the regressive misogyny if not stronger because dollars-to-donuts says they'll just default to "blame women" for why the porn is gone. (Despite all their slagging of OnlyFans models.)
just watching movies from the 80s and 90s is enough to see how incel-type behaviour not only existed, but was somewhat normalized as "romantic protagonist" behaviour
You could probably argue that what makes the incel is the rupture from the rest of society not accepting that behavior from all men. The friction between men who want the benefits of the patriarchy without the downsides, and the rest of everyone, including those who want the end of the patriarchy as well as those who are okay with the status quo, is what creates incels as a specific group.
NoFap is already a reactionary thing and basically General Ripper from Dr. Strangelove except unironic.
I don't think it's a gen x or boomer thing, I think there have always been men we'd now identify as incels in patriarchal society, as it's the logical end point of male sexual entitlement. The way we describe them has changed, but ideas like women not being able to be trusted with money or men not showing their feelings go back hundreds, if not thousands of years. I think what's really changed is the internet has given those people somewhere to gather and jerk themselves off about how unfair it is, intensifying their persecution complexes and causing them to act out more.
This is a pretty good macro-level way to look at it, I'm just trying to keep my lens fixed to recent history, y'know, likening/affixing the concept to 'sources' (even if not primary sources) that we all know and can identify immediately in our orbits. It's absolutely the logical endpoint, but to me, at the point where it affects us all, I see it all starts again with each man that COULD have broken that cycle, but couldn't even be incentivized to.
Cause there WERE some that actually tried NOT to; I've seen them, I've met them, but I've also seen their kids just totally go sides-up from proper teaching and acting to sink into this incel shit because of the crowd the kid keeps-- and the cycle in their bloodline starts again with the kid that went sideways, y'know?
Ah, I see what you mean, I'd misinterpreted you as saying the wider phenomenon only started with genx/boomers. Definitely agree with everything you've said, then.