What the fuck are you talking about humans are supposed to get old and die
They're also "supposed to" CW (SA, Violence, suffering):
spoiler
murder, rape, steal, and do all sorts stuff (that our closest relatives chimpanzees do, at least according to the latest research) and get owned by things like heart disease, cancer, etc (which btw Marx and Engels made fun of Malthus for).
Lots of things are "natural" but some we choose to embrace and others we choose to change. For example, a chud would oppose CW: (transphobia):
spoiler
transition surgery because it's "not natural" and "humans are supposed to be man and woman and there's no natural gender surgery"
::
I disagree completely with this deeply pessimistic view of humanity. None of the things you listed are innate to human nature or the human experience. People are born intersex, people are born trans.
Wanting to “change” getting old and dying implies there is something wrong with getting old and dying. My contention (which I’m about tapped out defending) is that the desire to change something that is good, that is natural, reflects an unhealthy relationship with death that permeates our culture. It is a part of life. We are supposed to die. There is nothing wrong with it. There IS something wrong with pretending it doesn’t exist, by shutting people away in nursing homes, or forcing them to die in hospitals instead of at home surrounded by loved ones.
This the most extreme expression of the type of selfishness and egoism plaguing capitalist society and manifesting in things like ecocide. We are only a small part of the whole. We are not supposed to live forever. We are supposed to be stewards and guides for future generations.
Yes they totally are, but in order to not "mess with nature" then would we just not allow them to get affirming medical procedures? I think that's the issue here, i.e. at what point do we intervene in the otherwise "natural order."
Very
take
What the fuck are you talking about humans are supposed to get old and die
They're also "supposed to" CW (SA, Violence, suffering):
spoiler
murder, rape, steal, and do all sorts stuff (that our closest relatives chimpanzees do, at least according to the latest research) and get owned by things like heart disease, cancer, etc (which btw Marx and Engels made fun of Malthus for).
Lots of things are "natural" but some we choose to embrace and others we choose to change. For example, a chud would oppose CW: (transphobia):
spoiler
transition surgery because it's "not natural" and "humans are supposed to be man and woman and there's no natural gender surgery" ::
I disagree completely with this deeply pessimistic view of humanity. None of the things you listed are innate to human nature or the human experience. People are born intersex, people are born trans.
Wanting to “change” getting old and dying implies there is something wrong with getting old and dying. My contention (which I’m about tapped out defending) is that the desire to change something that is good, that is natural, reflects an unhealthy relationship with death that permeates our culture. It is a part of life. We are supposed to die. There is nothing wrong with it. There IS something wrong with pretending it doesn’t exist, by shutting people away in nursing homes, or forcing them to die in hospitals instead of at home surrounded by loved ones.
This the most extreme expression of the type of selfishness and egoism plaguing capitalist society and manifesting in things like ecocide. We are only a small part of the whole. We are not supposed to live forever. We are supposed to be stewards and guides for future generations.
Yes they totally are, but in order to not "mess with nature" then would we just not allow them to get affirming medical procedures? I think that's the issue here, i.e. at what point do we intervene in the otherwise "natural order."
I think the difference is in the implication that there is something wrong with aging bodies that makes stories like this one eugenics-adjacent
A trans person receiving affirming care is not making such an assumption— gender affirming care does not imply inferiority of one gender vs another
Yeah sure, according to you. Yet aging is the one thing that is "natural." How convenient that it all fits how you want it to be....
Yeah the mental gymnastics are strong with that one...
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