Apologies if everyone knew this and it was a sitewide bit but I did not and now I feel kinda gross for having used it
EDIT: Converted to an archive link out of concerns about direct linking to reactionary site, mea culpa
To clarify: this is NOT the silly letter quote, that was very real
Tbh I have never seen this quote before. The """"""""""anti-debate""""""""" quote I know is the "Trotsky has sent in a silly letter" one which is real. I'm wondering if this guy is a new age Kauskyite indulging in hipster leftism.
Thankfully the silly letter quote is real, if we lost that one I would be inconsolable
Oh thank fuck when I saw the post title I thought it was this one. I'm glad this one is still real I need it to stay real.
In the article, they go over some examples of it being used in the mainstream by George Will. There's also at least one youtuber they cite as using it, for what that's worth. I haven't seen it on Hexbear or Lemmygrad, which is good.
From this article alone (never heard of this person before), they're definitely anti-Kautsky and pro-Lenin.
This whole section is interesting, too:
This quote is fake. More importantly, even if Lenin had said it, a sassy riposte to Kautsky cannot not "prove wrong" the idea that leftists should "convert people who think differently".
In reality, evidence overwhelmingly shows that persuasion works. For example, these three large-sample experimental studies strongly suggest that factual corrections change minds:
Wood et al 2018: there is no evidence for a consistent "backfire effect"; telling people facts generally changes their minds; among 10100 adults, the effect of factual correction was ~1/3 as large as the effect of ideology on stated belief
Schmid and Betsch 2019: experimental study: among 1661 adults, topic rebuttal (oppose misinformation with facts) and technique rebuttal (refute the methods that science deniers use to mislead their audience) substantially and significantly reduced the influence of science deniers (by about 1/3 of a standard deviation), especially among individuals who vulnerable to antiscience beliefs
Tappin 2021: against "partisan motivated reasoning": among 5071 adults, evidence changed minds in a sample of 24 policy issues; no significant difference between "evidence + contrary party leader cue" (purple) vs "evidence alone" (black)
Oh that's nice. I mean, debate is fucking awful and i hate it, but new information is good.
Wood et al 2018: there is no evidence for a consistent "backfire effect"; telling people facts generally changes their minds;
I have a VERY hard time believing this is true in given the day and age we're living in.
I think "generally" is doing a lot of work there. Tons of people dig in if you challenge their opinions, but a lot of people don't, too. Say 30-40% of people dig in on their positions no matter what evidence they see. That's enough that it's a huge factor you'd see all the time, but you could still say that generally (most of the time) people respond to facts.
Another sticky issue is what people consider to be reliable, factual information. If my grandpa sends me a chain email with "facts" from OANN, I'm going to be pretty skeptical. Maybe the information is actually factual, but I would have to choose to take the time to verify it through other sources before it would change my mind.
i always knew it was fake because homeboy literally wrote an entire book replying to kautsky once. it's like marx vs. stirner levels of reply guy
- Show
I want a giant Lenin head outside my home the same way Asian restaurants have a fat buddah or good luck cat statue
He’ll mention Kautsky for like 2 paragraphs while talking about something entirely different lol
I mean tbh I also wondered that but I saw it enough times I just kind of assumed even he got pissed off enough to say that once
Reminder that SDL is a racist liberal and I’ve also never seen that quote used here
I don't know anything about SDL but we literally have that quote as a site tagline and I see it here all the time, I went to go find the origin and found this. Apologies if I posted a bad source, truly don't know anything about them
do we? i thought we had the “trotsky has sent in a silly letter” quote as a tagline. that one is real
We have both - seeing this one (or maybe a variation on it) this morning was what prompted me to actually go find the source, I was curious. Is there anywhere to see a list of taglines?
https://www.vice.com/en/article/88na8p/leaked-racist-messages-show-leftist-youtuber-isnt
Hes a huge piece of shit who just wants clout and often left punches
something he said in destiny’s discord. i forget the details but they’re actually a disgusting person
SDL has sent in a silly letter. We will neither print it not reply to them.
I’m not anti debate. I’m anti wasting my time with silly people, thus that quote will always be real to me
Oh shit I'm sorry, I didn't realize. I'll put it in an archive link
Archive.ph has sent us a silly letter. We shall neither repost or dunk on it.
Don't worry it's not the silly letter quote - I know that would be devastating to lose
If we're debunking apocryphal Lenin quotes, he also never said the one about there being decades where nothing happens and weeks where decades happen
