Yeah good description of this recursive bullshit. I'm starting to become convinced this branch of the Maupin extended universe and certain podcasts are trying to create the illusion CPUSA has political relevance at all.
I am super curious why such a far-right deviation of "communism" like MAGA Communism exists. Like, what are the underlying material conditions that give rise to it? We understand Communism, we understand fascism, but PatSocs? Mystery to me.
If anyone has something to add, please, enlighten me.
2: Some people out there don't like capitalism but also are socially reactionary so they buy in the narrative some conservatives in AES states have about homosexuality being "western decadence" or whatever.
3: Kinda related to two, but I think some of these guys are just Russophilies who get into weird brand of modern Russian Nationalism that still revers the USSR and just mimic those guys' politics. Wouldn't be surprised if some of these dorks have pictures of Stalin and Czar Nicholas on their wall.
Outside of being an op, the only explanation I have is that it's based on pure vibes. They believe Western propaganda about Stalin and think it's based. They like Putin because he's not woke. They're anti-Zionist because they're actually antisemitic.
They basically do the "criticizing communism while describing capitalism" bit but in reverse, where they praise communism based on anti-communist propaganda that's supposed to make it sound like fascism.
Reminds me a lot of national socialism? They're just doing the thing they always do and stealing words/ideas and corrupting them to make shit more confusing.
idk, it doesnt even seem that intentional to me. i feel like it's more like anarcho-capitalism, just a bunch of half thought through ideas jammed awkwardly together none of which would ever work, based entirely on vibes. patsocs are basically just what happens when an average chud realizes that capitalism is bad but doesn't want to read theory and retains all of their racist and nationalist brainworms
Rightwingers are regularly intentional without being coherent. Anarcho capitalism is actually a great example of them being intentional, but not necessarily coherent.
They're an op by feds first and foremost. Beyond that they're a bunch of rich first world crackers attempting to cobble together leftist thought from their living rooms full of treats. Just imagine yourself to be the laziest, most pointless American white guy who wants for nothing. Now imagine you've read the tiniest bit of Lenin, or maybe you've just played as the Soviets in a video game. Rather than doing something cool like joining a local mutual aid group or working at a shelter, instead you simply adopt politics in the most white cracker way possible. You make a grift about how upper middle class white suburban Americans are actually the most threatened segment of the proletariat.
Tl;dr - They're a mirror image of Twitter Maoists and comments like yours further my suspicion they were cooked up by the feds specifically for you, the CPUSA, DSA, etc to get mad at and validate your popcorn-munching obsession with the compatible left.
If you don't believe me, well, consider it something to think about every time you introduce this new thing you have to get mad about to people. Nobody even knows who these people are, and they're clout chasers.
The loonier "MAGA communists" espouse the same fantasies of taking on the US military by dropping trees on tanks in Alabama. They randomly come up with Helter Skelter esque scenarios. (e.g. Kendrick / Drake beef could spiral into US Civil War 2 Electric Boogaloo (they really said this, not as a joke)).
Why do you bring up their sole redeeming quality other than having read three articles by Gabriel Rockhill about Adorno and Marcuse etcetera for me to get mad at it.
In fact, I doubt they have read it, since a lot of these guys try to recoup Heidegger and Zizek while pretending none of their critics have done more than draw associations between them and reactionary thought & institutions - not true of course. It's not that difficult to tear apart stuff like Heidegger's word games about being, and saying that shit really displays how little they read of criticism of their favorite writers, suggesting they haven't gotten through much of the original texts, enough to quote mine probably.
Their rejection of structural racism and invention of reverse woke structural
racism (analysis of structurally embedded racism in US finance capital is all throughout writing by Michael Hudson, as he talks about the legacy of redlining and the 2008 catastrophe of black household wealth, they also pretend to have read him!!) seems like direct fed counterplay to me, but I'm not going to bother with deep investigation into more infuencer debate tourney bullshit if I don't have to. None of this lends any legitimacy to Sakaiist Twitter leftist ideology.
It's not a "personal esoteric rejection" it's a broader grounding in Marxist theory, specifically anti-imperialist theory, dependency theory, unequal exchange, core/periphery and other world systems models, sorry that's not informed by Twitter and Youtube leftists from the anglosphere-dominated internet, but instead informed by Marxist texts already popular in China and Latin America, but only translated within the past 5 years. Personally I think I'm lucky.
I think you are the ones with a personal esoteric rejection. It's like attacking Caleb Maupin and Tariq Nasheed for being sexually perverse, instead of being obvious informants. It's clear the existence of "patriotic socialists" is met with absolute glee by the online western left. It validates you as much as NAFO people and the CPUSA base.
you're posting on an anonymous internet forum called "chapo trap house" if you want to educate people make an actual c/effort post about it and do so. but so far you're just rocking into a shitpost and claiming to have achieved such great theoretical understanding that you have moved beyond thinking that Settlers is a useful text, which is fine, but you also refuse to elaborate. you're making assumptions about me at least because i don't know who the fuck you're talking about or what glee i'm supposed to be experiencing about patsoc grifters. i'm personally disappointed. so. not really sure what you're thinking you're doing here. if this is a bit, then blackmoldfutures did it better
you have been commenting paragraphs of jargon at me for making a joke about patsocs being scared by Maoist/Third Worldists, i don't think i'm the upset one here. on a communist shitposting forum. either be more coherent or restrain yourself more, multiple users here are asking if you're a joke account (bmf aka blackmoldfutures). i'm only half convinced you aren't a joke account.
edit:
Sorry if I disturbed the third worldist (?) validation that these guys give you for having read one pamphlet.
i have no fucking clue what you think you're talking to me about or whatever your personal beef with the book Settlers is, but i'm pretty clearly making this thing called a "joke" about how fascists are afraid of it. you know, because this is an unserious thread about making jokes and not having serious academic discussions of historical materialism.
I'm glad you bring this up BTW because you can go back and see this is the exact same crowd. Sorry if double replying is antagonistic or something, but just look at how one of the MWM guys used to be part of a Texan Maoist organization. Maupin was at Occupy Wall Street. A lot of the MAGA Communists were literally democratic party vat children mere years ago. Whether that's a direct ideological connection to the compatible left I'm talking about or fed informants switching up their jobs it's a good example of how they're very similar to and contiguous with it. I say they're just part of it. I ignore the branding.
Go look at the language used in any of the articles on the More Perfect Union site. Same babble about the Constitution.
i don't think double replying is antagonistic, personally. yes, the few of the name-signers on this particular fed-site of nazbol grifters that i recognize are people that were spending their time just a few years ago posting about their readings of Capital
All the good stuff in MWM's work comes from reapplying Gabriel Rockhill and Michael Hudson. You stray outside that and the wrestling coach Liger is turning in sophomoric articles about chronic lyme disease.
I'm worried people are going to shitcoat it.
By the way this Tariq Nasheed guy is one of the most obvious informants that has ever lives. Used to be named Marcus Sanders.
i've kept an eye on eddie liger for the last couple years. he strikes me as like a destiny type that has read more Marx but has all the exact same hang ups in deference to the state structure of the us dictatorship of the bourgeois. his initial criticisms of popular discourse were relatively standard fare, but of course these days it's full
By the way this Tariq Nasheed guy is one of the most obvious informants that has ever lives. Used to be named Marcus Sanders.
It seems he got off on a murder plea while others around him went to prison and he went around doing his wedge issue fed shit. It's disturbing a lot of posters have pointed to him trying to undo peace treaties between gangs that were turning into almost more community oriented organization. Look if we can have socialistic attributes to Arab nationalism it can happen in the hood. I'm no expert.
But anyways he was in a Michael Moore movie which has me drawing disturbing parallels between that old curmudgeon and Alex Jones and I'm sure more strange connections will turn up.
They are not scared of anyone who they are able to indefinitely feud with online, no. Don't kid yourself. If you don't believe me, refer to any of their monologues about antagonizing "soyboy leftists" and the far right for engagement. They thrive off of outrage bait. It seems you are glazing over everything I'm saying. There's no time limit on responding to my mountains of "jargon". Just go live your life. Unless you really need to pretend you know better, just go drink some water and go for a walk.
you are being mind-shatteringly serious about a joke. do you not understand what jokes are? i have not claimed anything to do with Settlers other than a familiarity with the general contents. to make a joke. you're posting to a lot of people that they need to read another pamphlet and talking about who all is a fed, which is a wild thing to do so seriously about a joke. it's not that i necessarily agree with you or not, i just don't think you understand the current location you're in. i think that Settlers is flawed and that i'm not well-read enough to attempt any form of organized sectarian resistance to american empire from within. i personally have distaste for Maoist/tw rejection of aes countries. but i made a joke about settlers because it's a meme. again, not sure if you know what jokes are because you seem to be thinking that i genuinely believe that fascists are afraid of settlers. i do not. that is why it's a joke to say that they are. because they make a lot of noise as if they are. which is how jokes work.
None of this analysis is actually predicated on the fixation "patsocs" have on Settlers. It is just one angle from which we can discuss their need to draw people into online feuds to gain notoriety, and their factual links to the compatible left in the US, like how Pettis used to be a Maoist, but there are oodles of examples. I just use it as a springboard, I used another random comment in the other thread about this.
Writing these people off with inaccurate and simultaneously sensationalist + downplaying descriptions doesn't help. I think Ben Norton has the best strategy for dealing with their attacks. Ignore them except for one recent response video.
Settlers has its own interesting history but I'd rather not get into that either. My point is these guys are not so different from orgs posted around here and that's not a good sign haha
yeah sure, i personally am doubtful of any particular org posted around here. this is an anonymous forum populated by internet shitposters that like communism and trans people and hate general reactionary sentiments and actions. sectarianism doesn't fly here; this isn't a suitable place to organize or i think to make serious defences of any particular us "communist" org. i personally think that any openly communist org of any size is in some way captured because of the general violence imposed by the american empire. but people who are sectarian usually get banned soon enough. the user you're being compared to, u/blackmoldfutures was famous for posting rants about "DSA Karens" that were a bit too explicitly anti ancom to really fly. there's a high likelihood it was a bit, but no one can be too sure, might have just been someone a bit too cranky to understand effective text communication. this is a small site though, people here posting about it is effectively ignoring it for most of us.
i would recommend trying to avoid posting too seriously in the more meme oriented subs. there are absolutely locations for serious discussion and a tolerance towards trying to direct people towards it from things like the megathreads, like c/effort. the reading group as well. u/bmf was a classic, i have personal sympathy towards light-hearted ML-flavor shitposting about the "DSA Karens that are scared to eat the bugs."
Bugs aren't even worse than normal meat if you look at the fat and protein content. Beans have more protein than most of the meats these hogs shove in their mouths, and antinutrients can only affect like 5% absorption
Who is this even for? Anticommunists who like communist aesthetics?
their declaration is mostly about how much CPUSA sucks. they're trying to split a useless, reactionary party into two useless, reactionary parties.
Hey, the right wingers adopted something useful from the Left.
Yeah good description of this recursive bullshit. I'm starting to become convinced this branch of the Maupin extended universe and certain podcasts are trying to create the illusion CPUSA has political relevance at all.
I am super curious why such a far-right deviation of "communism" like MAGA Communism exists. Like, what are the underlying material conditions that give rise to it? We understand Communism, we understand fascism, but PatSocs? Mystery to me.
If anyone has something to add, please, enlighten me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
Ya know, that's on me, haha. Should've realized.
1: 90% of it is an Op.
2: Some people out there don't like capitalism but also are socially reactionary so they buy in the narrative some conservatives in AES states have about homosexuality being "western decadence" or whatever.
3: Kinda related to two, but I think some of these guys are just Russophilies who get into weird brand of modern Russian Nationalism that still revers the USSR and just mimic those guys' politics. Wouldn't be surprised if some of these dorks have pictures of Stalin and Czar Nicholas on their wall.
Outside of being an op, the only explanation I have is that it's based on pure vibes. They believe Western propaganda about Stalin and think it's based. They like Putin because he's not woke. They're anti-Zionist because they're actually antisemitic.
They basically do the "criticizing communism while describing capitalism" bit but in reverse, where they praise communism based on anti-communist propaganda that's supposed to make it sound like fascism.
Reminds me a lot of national socialism? They're just doing the thing they always do and stealing words/ideas and corrupting them to make shit more confusing.
idk, it doesnt even seem that intentional to me. i feel like it's more like anarcho-capitalism, just a bunch of half thought through ideas jammed awkwardly together none of which would ever work, based entirely on vibes. patsocs are basically just what happens when an average chud realizes that capitalism is bad but doesn't want to read theory and retains all of their racist and nationalist brainworms
Rightwingers are regularly intentional without being coherent. Anarcho capitalism is actually a great example of them being intentional, but not necessarily coherent.
They're an op by feds first and foremost. Beyond that they're a bunch of rich first world crackers attempting to cobble together leftist thought from their living rooms full of treats. Just imagine yourself to be the laziest, most pointless American white guy who wants for nothing. Now imagine you've read the tiniest bit of Lenin, or maybe you've just played as the Soviets in a video game. Rather than doing something cool like joining a local mutual aid group or working at a shelter, instead you simply adopt politics in the most white cracker way possible. You make a grift about how upper middle class white suburban Americans are actually the most threatened segment of the proletariat.
To the extent that it isn't an op, they basically just want an American version of
They want socialism with cracker characteristics
People who get mad at the idea of reading Settlers
Tl;dr - They're a mirror image of Twitter Maoists and comments like yours further my suspicion they were cooked up by the feds specifically for you, the CPUSA, DSA, etc to get mad at and validate your popcorn-munching obsession with the compatible left.
If you don't believe me, well, consider it something to think about every time you introduce this new thing you have to get mad about to people. Nobody even knows who these people are, and they're clout chasers.
The loonier "MAGA communists" espouse the same fantasies of taking on the US military by dropping trees on tanks in Alabama. They randomly come up with Helter Skelter esque scenarios. (e.g. Kendrick / Drake beef could spiral into US Civil War 2 Electric Boogaloo (they really said this, not as a joke)).
Why do you bring up their sole redeeming quality other than having read three articles by Gabriel Rockhill about Adorno and Marcuse etcetera for me to get mad at it.
In fact, I doubt they have read it, since a lot of these guys try to recoup Heidegger and Zizek while pretending none of their critics have done more than draw associations between them and reactionary thought & institutions - not true of course. It's not that difficult to tear apart stuff like Heidegger's word games about being, and saying that shit really displays how little they read of criticism of their favorite writers, suggesting they haven't gotten through much of the original texts, enough to quote mine probably.
Their rejection of structural racism and invention of reverse woke structural racism (analysis of structurally embedded racism in US finance capital is all throughout writing by Michael Hudson, as he talks about the legacy of redlining and the 2008 catastrophe of black household wealth, they also pretend to have read him!!) seems like direct fed counterplay to me, but I'm not going to bother with deep investigation into more infuencer debate tourney bullshit if I don't have to. None of this lends any legitimacy to Sakaiist Twitter leftist ideology.
Are you like BMFs slightly more articulate cousin?
it's like a bmf that hates these guys and third worldists i think?
Am I supposed to understand what this means or is this just playing to the crowd around here?
BMF was the most famous poster here before he got banned. If you've been here for more than a month you should have already heard of him.
It's not a "personal esoteric rejection" it's a broader grounding in Marxist theory, specifically anti-imperialist theory, dependency theory, unequal exchange, core/periphery and other world systems models, sorry that's not informed by Twitter and Youtube leftists from the anglosphere-dominated internet, but instead informed by Marxist texts already popular in China and Latin America, but only translated within the past 5 years. Personally I think I'm lucky.
I think you are the ones with a personal esoteric rejection. It's like attacking Caleb Maupin and Tariq Nasheed for being sexually perverse, instead of being obvious informants. It's clear the existence of "patriotic socialists" is met with absolute glee by the online western left. It validates you as much as NAFO people and the CPUSA base.
you're posting on an anonymous internet forum called "chapo trap house" if you want to educate people make an actual c/effort post about it and do so. but so far you're just rocking into a shitpost and claiming to have achieved such great theoretical understanding that you have moved beyond thinking that Settlers is a useful text, which is fine, but you also refuse to elaborate. you're making assumptions about me at least because i don't know who the fuck you're talking about or what glee i'm supposed to be experiencing about patsoc grifters. i'm personally disappointed. so. not really sure what you're thinking you're doing here. if this is a bit, then blackmoldfutures did it better
There is no need to be upset. Sorry if I disturbed the third worldist (?) validation that these guys give you for having read one pamphlet.
you have been commenting paragraphs of jargon at me for making a joke about patsocs being scared by Maoist/Third Worldists, i don't think i'm the upset one here. on a communist shitposting forum. either be more coherent or restrain yourself more, multiple users here are asking if you're a joke account (bmf aka blackmoldfutures). i'm only half convinced you aren't a joke account.
edit:
i have no fucking clue what you think you're talking to me about or whatever your personal beef with the book Settlers is, but i'm pretty clearly making this thing called a "joke" about how fascists are afraid of it. you know, because this is an unserious thread about making jokes and not having serious academic discussions of historical materialism.
I'm glad you bring this up BTW because you can go back and see this is the exact same crowd. Sorry if double replying is antagonistic or something, but just look at how one of the MWM guys used to be part of a Texan Maoist organization. Maupin was at Occupy Wall Street. A lot of the MAGA Communists were literally democratic party vat children mere years ago. Whether that's a direct ideological connection to the compatible left I'm talking about or fed informants switching up their jobs it's a good example of how they're very similar to and contiguous with it. I say they're just part of it. I ignore the branding.
Go look at the language used in any of the articles on the More Perfect Union site. Same babble about the Constitution.
i don't think double replying is antagonistic, personally. yes, the few of the name-signers on this particular fed-site of nazbol grifters that i recognize are people that were spending their time just a few years ago posting about their readings of Capital
All the good stuff in MWM's work comes from reapplying Gabriel Rockhill and Michael Hudson. You stray outside that and the wrestling coach Liger is turning in sophomoric articles about chronic lyme disease.
I'm worried people are going to shitcoat it.
By the way this Tariq Nasheed guy is one of the most obvious informants that has ever lives. Used to be named Marcus Sanders.
i've kept an eye on eddie liger for the last couple years. he strikes me as like a destiny type that has read more Marx but has all the exact same hang ups in deference to the state structure of the us dictatorship of the bourgeois. his initial criticisms of popular discourse were relatively standard fare, but of course these days it's full
that's hilarious holy shit
It seems he got off on a murder plea while others around him went to prison and he went around doing his wedge issue fed shit. It's disturbing a lot of posters have pointed to him trying to undo peace treaties between gangs that were turning into almost more community oriented organization. Look if we can have socialistic attributes to Arab nationalism it can happen in the hood. I'm no expert.
But anyways he was in a Michael Moore movie which has me drawing disturbing parallels between that old curmudgeon and Alex Jones and I'm sure more strange connections will turn up.
They are not scared of anyone who they are able to indefinitely feud with online, no. Don't kid yourself. If you don't believe me, refer to any of their monologues about antagonizing "soyboy leftists" and the far right for engagement. They thrive off of outrage bait. It seems you are glazing over everything I'm saying. There's no time limit on responding to my mountains of "jargon". Just go live your life. Unless you really need to pretend you know better, just go drink some water and go for a walk.
you are being mind-shatteringly serious about a joke. do you not understand what jokes are? i have not claimed anything to do with Settlers other than a familiarity with the general contents. to make a joke. you're posting to a lot of people that they need to read another pamphlet and talking about who all is a fed, which is a wild thing to do so seriously about a joke. it's not that i necessarily agree with you or not, i just don't think you understand the current location you're in. i think that Settlers is flawed and that i'm not well-read enough to attempt any form of organized sectarian resistance to american empire from within. i personally have distaste for Maoist/tw rejection of aes countries. but i made a joke about settlers because it's a meme. again, not sure if you know what jokes are because you seem to be thinking that i genuinely believe that fascists are afraid of settlers. i do not. that is why it's a joke to say that they are. because they make a lot of noise as if they are. which is how jokes work.
None of this analysis is actually predicated on the fixation "patsocs" have on Settlers. It is just one angle from which we can discuss their need to draw people into online feuds to gain notoriety, and their factual links to the compatible left in the US, like how Pettis used to be a Maoist, but there are oodles of examples. I just use it as a springboard, I used another random comment in the other thread about this.
Writing these people off with inaccurate and simultaneously sensationalist + downplaying descriptions doesn't help. I think Ben Norton has the best strategy for dealing with their attacks. Ignore them except for one recent response video.
Settlers has its own interesting history but I'd rather not get into that either. My point is these guys are not so different from orgs posted around here and that's not a good sign haha
yeah sure, i personally am doubtful of any particular org posted around here. this is an anonymous forum populated by internet shitposters that like communism and trans people and hate general reactionary sentiments and actions. sectarianism doesn't fly here; this isn't a suitable place to organize or i think to make serious defences of any particular us "communist" org. i personally think that any openly communist org of any size is in some way captured because of the general violence imposed by the american empire. but people who are sectarian usually get banned soon enough. the user you're being compared to, u/blackmoldfutures was famous for posting rants about "DSA Karens" that were a bit too explicitly anti ancom to really fly. there's a high likelihood it was a bit, but no one can be too sure, might have just been someone a bit too cranky to understand effective text communication. this is a small site though, people here posting about it is effectively ignoring it for most of us.
I went a little "DSA Karen" in these replies. Maybe I can summon them again if they remain AWOL
i would recommend trying to avoid posting too seriously in the more meme oriented subs. there are absolutely locations for serious discussion and a tolerance towards trying to direct people towards it from things like the megathreads, like c/effort. the reading group as well. u/bmf was a classic, i have personal sympathy towards light-hearted ML-flavor shitposting about the "DSA Karens that are scared to eat the bugs."
Bugs aren't even worse than normal meat if you look at the fat and protein content. Beans have more protein than most of the meats these hogs shove in their mouths, and antinutrients can only affect like 5% absorption
i like the bugs, they have a nice crunch.
It's a marketing ploy for live streamer Haz.