either you seriously think Russia's invasion was motivated by the export of dominant financial capital or you just like to add this word like seasoning to sound leftist, not sure which is more embarrassing
It is not easy to gauge what the war is motivated by, as it is waged mostly by one dictator's wishes, but my bets are on territorial gains, resource gains (as eastern Ukraine notably contains quite a lot of resources), cultural expansion (see: banning of ukranian language in schools and government services), and perhaps delusions of grandeur and desire to bring back USSR/Russian Empire (which appear to be entirely interchangeable in Russian propaganda lately), all of which fit the definition of imperialism quite well. It could also just be an internal political game, attempting to repeat the "Crimean consensus" and get Putin's waning ratings back up. That didn't quite work out, so the governance model descended from authocratic capitalism into near-fascism. In the latter case it would indeed not exactly be an imperialist war, but I'm not sure if that helps Russia's case here.
Russia is famously lacking for land and raw materials
one dictator’s wishes
You mean Zelensky, right? The guy that sold the country to foreign capital before indefinitely suspending elections, jailing any dissidents, and giving himself absolute power?
I joke of course. You can tell Putin's a dictator, because he was popularly elected multiple times by the Russian people. If Russia were a real Democracy™, he'd be broadly unpopular among every Russian demographic and chosen by an unelected cabal of wealthy party elites like in the US.
USSR/Russian Empire (which appear to be entirely interchangeable in Russian propaganda lately)
Sure man, it's Russian propaganda in which they're interchangeable. I mean, I'm sure you'd know what with all the Russian media you're busy avoiding.
Russia is famously lacking for land and raw materials
Strategically important and tourist-attracting Crimea with a land bridge to it would be pretty useful by itself, couple that with prime agricultural land (Ukraine is a massive producer of grain), lots of coal, some oil and gas.
I joke of course. You can tell Putin’s a dictator, because he was popularly elected multiple times by the Russian people
There was not a fair presidential election in Russia since (arguably) 1996, when communists were defeated with significant use of administrative resource by Eltsin administration. Any serious political opposition began to be silenced in 2012. 2020 constitutional changes were actually unconstitutional, and as such were a soft coup. Both 2018 and 2024 elections had massive electoral fraud too.
Sure man, it’s Russian propaganda in which they’re interchangeable. I mean, I’m sure you’d know what with all the Russian media you’re busy avoiding.
I'm actually reading official and independent Russian news weekly due to Russia being my home country.
You really like to dance around admitting the fact that the war was started because NATO tried to set up its weapons on the Russian border and use the threat to either coerce or openly attack Russia.
On that note, mind telling us how you think Russia should have reacted to the NATO-backed coup in Ukraine in 2014?
You really like to dance around admitting the fact that the war was started because NATO tried to set up its weapons on the Russian border and use the threat to either coerce or openly attack Russia.
NATO has had weapons on the Russian border for 20 years now. There were obviously no plans to "openly attack Russia", as they would have been realized after Russia actually invaded Ukraine. As for coercion, yeah, imperialism sucks, I wish US didn't do it, but it does not justify starting a war with a smaller country with intent to invade it.
On that note, mind telling us how you think Russia should have reacted to the NATO-backed coup in Ukraine in 2014?
I'm not one to give complex geopolitical advice, but definitely not by invading it. Perhaps a good start would be exercising its immense soft power inside the country to help pro-Russian powers (which has been attempted, but extremely unsuccessfully).
NATO has had weapons on the Russian border for 20 years now
Is that why we've seen so many NATO bases in Ukraine clash with the Russian military in the past 2 years? Oh, wait.
There were obviously no plans to "openly attack Russia"
Lol. You are saying this about the empire which, among other things, invaded Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria just this century, and which has been committing a highly-televised genocide in Palestine.
Oh, and which also had the Russian government be its puppet in the 90s, and where it killed millions of people through legislative means.
Notably, you did not answer my question:
mind telling us how you think Russia should have reacted to the NATO-backed coup in Ukraine in 2014?
Having read some more of what you wrote, I do have to give it to you that you aren't a chauvinist while also recognising that NATO is at least somewhat bad. However, my criticism of your position stands.
Perhaps a good start would be exercising its immense soft power inside the country to help pro-Russian powers (which has been attempted, but extremely unsuccessfully).
So you acknowledge that they already did it and it wasn't enough . . .
TBH I agree with you that the invasion wasn't justified. Nor was NATO expansion, orchestrating the 2014 coup in Ukraine, and a whole host of other things. (Disclaimer: I'm an anarchist, so I never see the actions of nation-states as legitimate or justified.)
But that actually doesn't matter. At all. The important thing is to consider what to do now. War is fucking bad. People are dying. The environment is being ripped to shreds, both locally and globally. Capitalists are lapping up profits like nobody's business. Far more important than where some shitty, illegitimate national border winds up ultimately landing is whether the participants in this war keep slaughtering working-class people for their own ends. The most responsibility for that lies with the U.S. and its empire, which is using Ukraine to try to harm Russia, no matter how many lives it has to toss into the meat grinder. It has directly intervened in peace talks and sabotaged overridden ceasefire agreements, and may very well do so again. Of lesser but still high responsibility is Ukraine's government, which was U.S.-installed and has been selling itself, its land (massive privatization to the benefit of U.S. corporations), and its people (conscription, etc.) for the sake of a more privileged position within the empire. And of course Russia shares a lot of responsibility, though getting it to back away from that is hardest because nation-states have very little incentive to resign themselves to existential threats like NATO expansion/encirclement.
So what can you and I do about it? We can pressure the participants. You said in another comment that you live in (or your "home country is"?) Russia. You are in a position to actually pressure Russia to stop invading/expanding and to back away as much as you can possibly make it. You should. Good for you. Many people here are in a better position to pressure the West to do similar: to allow ceasefire negotiations to continue, stop the supply of weapons for war, shrink or dissolve NATO, keep their nation's hands off of Ukraine, etc. We should. Working-class people "on both sides" pressuring the entities they have some small amount of influence on to back down isn't contradictory, but is 100% consistent with socialists fighting the class war. Don't forget that the class war is the only justified "war" there is or can be. As Vijay Prashad has said so well, "War itself is a crime."
You know there is like history and real life and stuff that happened prior to the invasion right? Like you don't have to guess or speculate or make up fan theories? Like you can just like read and find out why.
This feigned "who could possibly know" attitude is baffling. Just like look it up
All the reasons I've provided are grounded in actual Russian reality as it was before the invasion. I had been following russian news, from both official and independent outlets, due to actually living there. I don't think I need to look up the obviously made up reasons of "denazification" and "demilitarisation".
what a buch of idealist garbage. love to solemnly intone about how "it is not easy to gauge" what the war is motivated by when you haven't read the explicit justifications given in Putin's speeches and therefore cannot critique it even from a materialist standpoint
either you seriously think Russia's invasion was motivated by the export of dominant financial capital or you just like to add this word like seasoning to sound leftist, not sure which is more embarrassing
It is not easy to gauge what the war is motivated by, as it is waged mostly by one dictator's wishes, but my bets are on territorial gains, resource gains (as eastern Ukraine notably contains quite a lot of resources), cultural expansion (see: banning of ukranian language in schools and government services), and perhaps delusions of grandeur and desire to bring back USSR/Russian Empire (which appear to be entirely interchangeable in Russian propaganda lately), all of which fit the definition of imperialism quite well. It could also just be an internal political game, attempting to repeat the "Crimean consensus" and get Putin's waning ratings back up. That didn't quite work out, so the governance model descended from authocratic capitalism into near-fascism. In the latter case it would indeed not exactly be an imperialist war, but I'm not sure if that helps Russia's case here.
Russia is famously lacking for land and raw materials
You mean Zelensky, right? The guy that sold the country to foreign capital before indefinitely suspending elections, jailing any dissidents, and giving himself absolute power?
I joke of course. You can tell Putin's a dictator, because he was popularly elected multiple times by the Russian people. If Russia were a real Democracy™, he'd be broadly unpopular among every Russian demographic and chosen by an unelected cabal of wealthy party elites like in the US.
Sure man, it's Russian propaganda in which they're interchangeable. I mean, I'm sure you'd know what with all the Russian media you're busy avoiding.
Strategically important and tourist-attracting Crimea with a land bridge to it would be pretty useful by itself, couple that with prime agricultural land (Ukraine is a massive producer of grain), lots of coal, some oil and gas.
There was not a fair presidential election in Russia since (arguably) 1996, when communists were defeated with significant use of administrative resource by Eltsin administration. Any serious political opposition began to be silenced in 2012. 2020 constitutional changes were actually unconstitutional, and as such were a soft coup. Both 2018 and 2024 elections had massive electoral fraud too.
I'm actually reading official and independent Russian news weekly due to Russia being my home country.
Imagine pretending that the 90s elections in Russia were 'fair' when NATO literally intervened in them on the side of Yeltsin.
EDIT: grammar. I seem to have mixed up both 'intervened in' and 'interfered with' when I initially made the comment.
I concede that elections before then were not really fair either, but definitely not as blatant as 96.
You really like to dance around admitting the fact that the war was started because NATO tried to set up its weapons on the Russian border and use the threat to either coerce or openly attack Russia.
On that note, mind telling us how you think Russia should have reacted to the NATO-backed coup in Ukraine in 2014?
NATO has had weapons on the Russian border for 20 years now. There were obviously no plans to "openly attack Russia", as they would have been realized after Russia actually invaded Ukraine. As for coercion, yeah, imperialism sucks, I wish US didn't do it, but it does not justify starting a war with a smaller country with intent to invade it.
I'm not one to give complex geopolitical advice, but definitely not by invading it. Perhaps a good start would be exercising its immense soft power inside the country to help pro-Russian powers (which has been attempted, but extremely unsuccessfully).
Is that why we've seen so many NATO bases in Ukraine clash with the Russian military in the past 2 years? Oh, wait.
Lol. You are saying this about the empire which, among other things, invaded Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria just this century, and which has been committing a highly-televised genocide in Palestine.
Oh, and which also had the Russian government be its puppet in the 90s, and where it killed millions of people through legislative means.
Notably, you did not answer my question:
mind telling us how you think Russia should have reacted to the NATO-backed coup in Ukraine in 2014?
?
Misspoke. I meant 'Palestine'. Brain not braining at this point.
Having read some more of what you wrote, I do have to give it to you that you aren't a chauvinist while also recognising that NATO is at least somewhat bad. However, my criticism of your position stands.
So you acknowledge that they already did it and it wasn't enough . . .
TBH I agree with you that the invasion wasn't justified. Nor was NATO expansion, orchestrating the 2014 coup in Ukraine, and a whole host of other things. (Disclaimer: I'm an anarchist, so I never see the actions of nation-states as legitimate or justified.)
But that actually doesn't matter. At all. The important thing is to consider what to do now. War is fucking bad. People are dying. The environment is being ripped to shreds, both locally and globally. Capitalists are lapping up profits like nobody's business. Far more important than where some shitty, illegitimate national border winds up ultimately landing is whether the participants in this war keep slaughtering working-class people for their own ends. The most responsibility for that lies with the U.S. and its empire, which is using Ukraine to try to harm Russia, no matter how many lives it has to toss into the meat grinder. It has directly intervened in peace talks and
sabotagedoverridden ceasefire agreements, and may very well do so again. Of lesser but still high responsibility is Ukraine's government, which was U.S.-installed and has been selling itself, its land (massive privatization to the benefit of U.S. corporations), and its people (conscription, etc.) for the sake of a more privileged position within the empire. And of course Russia shares a lot of responsibility, though getting it to back away from that is hardest because nation-states have very little incentive to resign themselves to existential threats like NATO expansion/encirclement.So what can you and I do about it? We can pressure the participants. You said in another comment that you live in (or your "home country is"?) Russia. You are in a position to actually pressure Russia to stop invading/expanding and to back away as much as you can possibly make it. You should. Good for you. Many people here are in a better position to pressure the West to do similar: to allow ceasefire negotiations to continue, stop the supply of weapons for war, shrink or dissolve NATO, keep their nation's hands off of Ukraine, etc. We should. Working-class people "on both sides" pressuring the entities they have some small amount of influence on to back down isn't contradictory, but is 100% consistent with socialists fighting the class war. Don't forget that the class war is the only justified "war" there is or can be. As Vijay Prashad has said so well, "War itself is a crime."
You know there is like history and real life and stuff that happened prior to the invasion right? Like you don't have to guess or speculate or make up fan theories? Like you can just like read and find out why.
This feigned "who could possibly know" attitude is baffling. Just like look it up
All the reasons I've provided are grounded in actual Russian reality as it was before the invasion. I had been following russian news, from both official and independent outlets, due to actually living there. I don't think I need to look up the obviously made up reasons of "denazification" and "demilitarisation".
since you're such a smart guy who knows what's obviously made up, tell me about Operation Aerodynamic
Shut the fuck up, you have no fucking idea what you're talking about
Never happened but your projection levels are off the charts because the
did ban the Russian language
what a buch of idealist garbage. love to solemnly intone about how "it is not easy to gauge" what the war is motivated by when you haven't read the explicit justifications given in Putin's speeches and therefore cannot critique it even from a materialist standpoint
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2024/06/putins-full-speech-brics-nato-expansion-and-ukraine-peace-talk-conditions.html
you are a joke, stop attempting to sound leftist and actually do some reading