The far-right populist Alternative for Germany party rejects a values-based foreign policy, just as much as it rejects NATO and the US. That approach has attracted the attention of Beijing.
Imagine for a split second that the strongest government in the world is constantly attempting to cause the overthrow of your legitimately popular government, despite it being popular and significantly beloved by almost all people there. This external, most powerful government in the world tried to cause unrest in every possible way, including funding all opposition groups and organizations regardless of their violent/genocidal intent (e.g. Falun Gong, Islamic terror groups) and cause unrest on your borders (Pakistan, Afghanistan, Korea).
What do you do? When good faith polling shows that you're popular and fulfilling the needs and desires of your country's working class but a foreign press tries to speak about the terribleness and need for overthrow, do you just let that happen with more money and propoganda than you can possibly provide to support yourself? Or do you censor the BS and report to your population that these images/ideas/orgs are actually subversive and attempting to change the government they legitimately love.
In this hypothetical situation, what do you propose? Allowing the propaganda but claiming it's wrong has failed in many projects, and resulted in massacres once fascism won (Chile, Indonesia). Just trying to set up a wall of no information works for a bit, but info can cross anyways (USSR). Allowing limited access if you search for it but not allowing it's widespread propagation is the method of china. A VPN allows you to see it all, but it can't be spread too widely before it is stopped from being viral.
Do you have a better solution? Because this is how China presents itself and how the Chinese population sees it
What are you talking about? Of course the people in China have a right to vote.
Honestly, how did you come to be so confidently incorrect about this? You would have to have done no research at all to think the people of China don't vote, but a normal person who has done no research about a subject will have the humility not to assume they know what they're talking about.
It's okay to admit you don't know something. Like the other person said, Chinese people can vote
Learn yourself so that you can make informed opinions
It's better to have no knowledge than negative knowledge (knowing "facts" that are completely wrong because of a gut feeling assumption rather than any evidence or research)
And in hindsight, not such a great person. Or at least had a lot of negatives to go along with his positives. Probably best to hard code not only a term limit, but an age limit on elected officials. I'm tired of the world being run by geriatrics. Culture seems to be consistently 20 year ahead of government.
Term-limits are blatantly anti-democratic and age limits are clumsy, but a cognitive evaluation and probably an MRI would be good for rooting out cases of cognitive decline.
There is an informal age limit in China and Xi is still below it, though just barely. I'm curious if he'll go for another term after crossing it. I think he understands that he needs to retire sometime -- no one wants to become a late '60s Mao.
Serious question, do you? When I criticise the US I do so from a position of knowing how power works between its three branches of government, how the senate works, how local governance works, how elections work, how the courts work. Do you know how China conducts any of these? Do you know how they govern 1.6billion people?
It's a one-party state with all candidates chosen by the party.
It may wear the skin of a democracy, but it is not a democracy.
This is the vaguest description ever and it's not even correct with the vague points. There are multiple parties, and given that there are multiple parties the candidates certainly aren't chosen by one party.
How are candidates chosen? Who elects them? When are elections held? What is the structure of the elections?
Do you know any of these things? Serious question. Have you ever investigated and learned this topic thoroughly? You know how the US system works I assume, I bet you vaguely understand some other systems too, like parliamentary ones such as the UK (or not, could be wrong). Have you ever actually investigated the topic or have you just passively repeated vague statements made by other people who are also passively repeating vague statements about it?
If you want me to I can in fact give you a fairly good summary of how the Chinese system actually works. But do you even want to know? Are you actually open to learning?
Though, in fairness, red man is actively hostile to LGBT people, migrants, and women whereas blue man is content to let LGBT people, migrants, and women suffer via apathetic neglect instead.
Weird how democracy didn't stop the genocide of the Native Americans, or the Aboriginal People of Australia, or the First Nations. I guess "true democracy" has just never been tried.
Two Jews meet on the U-Bahn in 1935. One is reading a Nazi newspaper. His friend asks him "how can you read those outrageous lies about us?!" He replies "If I read a real newspaper, its persecution this and deportation that. But in this paper? We own all the banks, the movies, the government!"
Classic but red flag (lol) conspiracy theory vibes in this context. Jewish people owning China or vice versa? Either way fits more in line with qanonists
God could the point go over your head harder. That user wasn't engaging in a conspiracy theory that Jews on all the banks movies and government, they were comparing your apparent belief that the Chinese government controls the American government to those antisemitic conspiracy theories.
Also zero points in an argument with a bunch of people who can't downvote
I think that in 30 years you'll be considered the anti-Semite of this age, honestly. Sartre once famously claimed something like "if the Nazi didn't have the jew, they would have created him."
Sartre, for all his faults, understood that fascism always needed the external and periphery, whether defined geographically or ethnically, in order to sustain itself through expropriation. Who this was doesn't matter as much as that this group is defined as having more than it deserves for bad reasons and is therefore justifiable as a victim of violent expropriation. The values represented have become more progressive™ in that you believe China owns American representatives in order to mistreat Muslims or something. But materially it's identical to "Judeo-Bolshevik" antisemitism
Here's a bite-sized analysis from a guy who's pretty good at this:
I remember fascists have been calling antifascists fascists for a long time but "the anti-Semite of this age" is definitely one of the most despicably hateful derogatory things I've seen in a while.
Edit: no, I do not open links from Musk's alt-right-landia
Actually, I first posted only hog but I'll give you 1 more comment. Before I decide I'm wasting time.
How do you understand the anti-Semitism that defined 1917(?)-1945 fascism? How did this phenomenon arise and what interests were represented by the actions that these beliefs supported? Don't just give me the Ur-fascism definition, or some extra-simplified version (palingenetic ultranationalism) of this unless you can really describe WHY it arises. I wanna know the why behind the entire process, because, like is claimed in the link I sent, anti-Semitism was defined as explicitly different from normal hatred of Jews/judeophobia which unfortunately was around at that time.
But if it seems you didn't read the 2 minutes of screenshots in the link I sent, I will just post hog to you from that point lol
It's a one-party state with all candidates chosen by the party.
I much prefer all those two or three party states where the candidates are chosen by their respective parties on the marching orders of the capitalist class
the representatives are chosen by their parties in most countries, including the US. the difference is that in western "democracies" there's two or more parties all representing the same interests - those of the capitalist class - posing the electorate with a false choice. how is this improvement?
That's because they've been brainwashed by a consistently rising standard of living, they don't have free press like us to tell them how they should really feel about things
Yes, they did. Until some alphabet agency agent co opt the protest, when it's about inflation and economic crisis. Many Chinese peoples still piss at them till this days, at least learn about the country first before spouting shite
For their peer, they vote for the most competent to run the govt, not some snake oil sales man or senile old man that rely on pr popularity to run the damn country. Look at Nigeria, a drug lord successfully make peoples vote for him and now they're in the brink of war even though peoples don't like it,
No one in China is ever asked what they want or what they believe in because the CCP doesn't care. China is ruled by a military dictatorship, and under that form of government the people have 0 rights and 0 say in any government policy
This piqued my interest, since a lot of the Uyghur genocide narrative collapsed years ago to the point that even the journalists that were reporting it began walking it back.
Taking a look at who is currently reporting on "Uyghur genocide" in 2023, and it's all organisations like Voice of America, Radio Free Asia, United States Institute of Peace - basically (literal) US government propaganda agencies reporting on the US congress proceedings.
Democracy ™️ brought to you by Yum brands Inc. Is infact everyone's enemy. The Chinese process is infact more democratic. When you look at the way funds are apportioned and how often the legislation passed reflects the will of the people it is undeniable they actually have more democratic input in their system than we do.
Meh, our democracy isn't even that threatening to China (Taiwan's is, it showcases a viable alternative to the CPC), they just had to leave us to our "contradictions", they'd keep booming and we'd just keep buying their stuff while we eat each other alive, if China is doing this, they gotta be really desperate to turn Europe fascist again.
(Taiwan's is, it showcases a viable alternative to the CPC)
Throwing chairs at each other in the Legislative Yuan over who gets to be America's most loyal running dog isn't seen by anyone thing China as a viable alternative to governance.
It's ok, Hu Jintao really didn't mind being dragged off the stage like an idiot in a country where face is everything. China does settle fistfights in private, which does set a good example for the populace, ngl.
Aside from the racism of the "face culture" narrative, the guy is a dinosaur and notably not an official, just there as a matter of respect and legacy as a former President. We don't really know what happened, but those meetings are long and the dude is probably senile, so he was probably getting helped off the stage by aides at around the time they expected from the outset.
The term orientalism denotes the exaggeration of difference, the presumption of Western superiority, and the application of clichéd analytical models for perceiving the "Oriental world".
Look, if I find it disrespectful and a scandal to watch that video, I assume that anybody who tends to value and respect the position, wisdom of their elders in an institution (more than us who throw them in nursing homes and ignore them forever) will find this pretty jarring for a well-functioning Chinese democracy.
But you guys are hilarious, finding offense where none was given, you're an amazing instance, I want you to know that, from the bottom of my heart.
Did that sound like a thing that wasn't wildly rascist when you wrote it? You can delete your comment. You simply can choose not to be rascist, it doesn't cost you anything.
They share a common enemy, democracy.
China is a democracy
President for life doesn't sound democratic.
Term limits that silence the will of the people don't sound democratic to me
Neither does censoring criticism of the government and proxy depictions of it.
Imagine for a split second that the strongest government in the world is constantly attempting to cause the overthrow of your legitimately popular government, despite it being popular and significantly beloved by almost all people there. This external, most powerful government in the world tried to cause unrest in every possible way, including funding all opposition groups and organizations regardless of their violent/genocidal intent (e.g. Falun Gong, Islamic terror groups) and cause unrest on your borders (Pakistan, Afghanistan, Korea).
What do you do? When good faith polling shows that you're popular and fulfilling the needs and desires of your country's working class but a foreign press tries to speak about the terribleness and need for overthrow, do you just let that happen with more money and propoganda than you can possibly provide to support yourself? Or do you censor the BS and report to your population that these images/ideas/orgs are actually subversive and attempting to change the government they legitimately love.
In this hypothetical situation, what do you propose? Allowing the propaganda but claiming it's wrong has failed in many projects, and resulted in massacres once fascism won (Chile, Indonesia). Just trying to set up a wall of no information works for a bit, but info can cross anyways (USSR). Allowing limited access if you search for it but not allowing it's widespread propagation is the method of china. A VPN allows you to see it all, but it can't be spread too widely before it is stopped from being viral.
Do you have a better solution? Because this is how China presents itself and how the Chinese population sees it
What's that got to do with China?
Oh I think he's talking about FDR, the most popular president in U.S. history and one consistently ranked amongst the best
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What are you talking about? Of course the people in China have a right to vote.
Honestly, how did you come to be so confidently incorrect about this? You would have to have done no research at all to think the people of China don't vote, but a normal person who has done no research about a subject will have the humility not to assume they know what they're talking about.
It's okay to admit you don't know something. Like the other person said, Chinese people can vote
Learn yourself so that you can make informed opinions
It's better to have no knowledge than negative knowledge (knowing "facts" that are completely wrong because of a gut feeling assumption rather than any evidence or research)
And in hindsight, not such a great person. Or at least had a lot of negatives to go along with his positives. Probably best to hard code not only a term limit, but an age limit on elected officials. I'm tired of the world being run by geriatrics. Culture seems to be consistently 20 year ahead of government.
Term-limits are blatantly anti-democratic and age limits are clumsy, but a cognitive evaluation and probably an MRI would be good for rooting out cases of cognitive decline.
There is an informal age limit in China and Xi is still below it, though just barely. I'm curious if he'll go for another term after crossing it. I think he understands that he needs to retire sometime -- no one wants to become a late '60s Mao.
How high are you right meow?
Do you not know what the structure of China is?
Serious question, do you? When I criticise the US I do so from a position of knowing how power works between its three branches of government, how the senate works, how local governance works, how elections work, how the courts work. Do you know how China conducts any of these? Do you know how they govern 1.6billion people?
It's a one-party state with all candidates chosen by the party.
It may wear the skin of a democracy, but it is not a democracy.
This is the vaguest description ever and it's not even correct with the vague points. There are multiple parties, and given that there are multiple parties the candidates certainly aren't chosen by one party.
How are candidates chosen? Who elects them? When are elections held? What is the structure of the elections?
Do you know any of these things? Serious question. Have you ever investigated and learned this topic thoroughly? You know how the US system works I assume, I bet you vaguely understand some other systems too, like parliamentary ones such as the UK (or not, could be wrong). Have you ever actually investigated the topic or have you just passively repeated vague statements made by other people who are also passively repeating vague statements about it?
If you want me to I can in fact give you a fairly good summary of how the Chinese system actually works. But do you even want to know? Are you actually open to learning?
I've investigated Chinese Democracy thoroughly and vastly prefer Use Your Illusion II or Appetite for Destruction
Can't beat the classics but the only Chinese Democracy is a surprisingly good album!
Democracy is when you vote between red man and blue man, both of whom have the same policies.
And both are funded by the same Bankers, Weapons Makers and Resource Extractors
Though, in fairness, red man is actively hostile to LGBT people, migrants, and women whereas blue man is content to let LGBT people, migrants, and women suffer via apathetic neglect instead.
Truly a vibrant political system.
Democracy is when The People Decide if trans people should exist but the tax rate policy is written by the rich
Weird how democracy didn't stop the genocide of the Native Americans, or the Aboriginal People of Australia, or the First Nations. I guess "true democracy" has just never been tried.
Let's topple all fake democracies. China's red-blue man owns US's red and blue men anyway.
Two Jews meet on the U-Bahn in 1935. One is reading a Nazi newspaper. His friend asks him "how can you read those outrageous lies about us?!" He replies "If I read a real newspaper, its persecution this and deportation that. But in this paper? We own all the banks, the movies, the government!"
Classic but red flag (lol) conspiracy theory vibes in this context. Jewish people owning China or vice versa? Either way fits more in line with qanonists
God could the point go over your head harder. That user wasn't engaging in a conspiracy theory that Jews on all the banks movies and government, they were comparing your apparent belief that the Chinese government controls the American government to those antisemitic conspiracy theories.
Also zero points in an argument with a bunch of people who can't downvote
Whooooosh lol 😉
Would someone actually create a "your apparent belief" in their mind from that
You know what, it's not even apparent, you explicitly stated it:
There's actually a looong leap from the known China-sponsored politicians to antisemitic cabal conspiracy theories
Not really, no.
That tells a lot of those who think that
I think that in 30 years you'll be considered the anti-Semite of this age, honestly. Sartre once famously claimed something like "if the Nazi didn't have the jew, they would have created him."
Sartre, for all his faults, understood that fascism always needed the external and periphery, whether defined geographically or ethnically, in order to sustain itself through expropriation. Who this was doesn't matter as much as that this group is defined as having more than it deserves for bad reasons and is therefore justifiable as a victim of violent expropriation. The values represented have become more progressive™ in that you believe China owns American representatives in order to mistreat Muslims or something. But materially it's identical to "Judeo-Bolshevik" antisemitism
Here's a bite-sized analysis from a guy who's pretty good at this:
https://twitter.com/RodericDay/status/1495054681579692035?t=gmJyzLx5go9hZWcFJkt5fw&s=19
I remember fascists have been calling antifascists fascists for a long time but "the anti-Semite of this age" is definitely one of the most despicably hateful derogatory things I've seen in a while.
Edit: no, I do not open links from Musk's alt-right-landia
Actually, I first posted only hog but I'll give you 1 more comment. Before I decide I'm wasting time.
How do you understand the anti-Semitism that defined 1917(?)-1945 fascism? How did this phenomenon arise and what interests were represented by the actions that these beliefs supported? Don't just give me the Ur-fascism definition, or some extra-simplified version (palingenetic ultranationalism) of this unless you can really describe WHY it arises. I wanna know the why behind the entire process, because, like is claimed in the link I sent, anti-Semitism was defined as explicitly different from normal hatred of Jews/judeophobia which unfortunately was around at that time.
But if it seems you didn't read the 2 minutes of screenshots in the link I sent, I will just post hog to you from that point lol
Did you seriously read this as saying the Nazis were right?
I don't know who would read that
I much prefer all those two or three party states where the candidates are chosen by their respective parties on the marching orders of the capitalist class
lmao dog you shoulda just said "i don't know anything about that, why don't you tell me?"
it still would have taken you zero effort and you'd have avoided embarrassing yourself
According to their respective peoples, China has an infinitely more vibrant and responsive democracy than the United States.
I'd hate to think you'd be so blind to the irony of saying such a thing as 'wearing the skin of democracy' if you were living in the west.
Either way I'd be ashamed to act like you have and speak despite having such ignorance about the Chinese system of democracy.
So you don't know the structure
the representatives are chosen by their parties in most countries, including the US. the difference is that in western "democracies" there's two or more parties all representing the same interests - those of the capitalist class - posing the electorate with a false choice. how is this improvement?
Democracy is when the people hate their government and the more they hate it the more democratic it is
Not at all. You?
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That's because they've been brainwashed by a consistently rising standard of living, they don't have free press like us to tell them how they should really feel about things
"Sir, their government has brainwashed them by... running the country well enough to consistently raise the standard of living!"
"Those dastardly Chinese!"
White people in Apartheid-South Africa believed Apartheid-South Africa was a democracy, too.
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Vote for whom?
Their government.
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Gee... if the Tiananmen Square protestors only knew that, eh?
Yes, they did. Until some alphabet agency agent co opt the protest, when it's about inflation and economic crisis. Many Chinese peoples still piss at them till this days, at least learn about the country first before spouting shite
Riiiight... the country that the CIA had famously failed to penetrate - right until it became convenient for tankies to pretend they actually did, eh?
They did.
For their peer, they vote for the most competent to run the govt, not some snake oil sales man or senile old man that rely on pr popularity to run the damn country. Look at Nigeria, a drug lord successfully make peoples vote for him and now they're in the brink of war even though peoples don't like it,
Riiiight... I'm pretty sure Xi Jinping hangs with the over-worked factory people every night and does his share of the sewing.
Tell me another fairy tale, tankie.
Nice, very tasteful comparison
I have never looked it up but for them it probably was. That isn't the reason people were upset about the situation.
Turning a dial labeled racism because it makes weak leftists angry for some reason.
(Cowards)
Yes, but can they support that with facts? Average Joes think a lot of weird stuff.
No one in China is ever asked what they want or what they believe in because the CCP doesn't care. China is ruled by a military dictatorship, and under that form of government the people have 0 rights and 0 say in any government policy
Thousands in China were asked every single year from 2003 to 2016 by Harvard in an intensive study that they've described themselves as "nothing comparable done on this scale, over such a long period of time, and over a large geographic area"
The conclusion they found is that 95%+ of Chinese citizens are satisfied with the government
If you tell me Harvard is a Chinese propaganda institution I'll take your word for it though
Still mad that you got banned from a comm for being Sinophobic? You do not give two shits about Chinese people, so quit fronting.
Do you care about the Uyghur people China is currently trying to genocide?
Also The ban was for calling out Chinese racism against black people in Africa, so no, I don't care quite frankly
It's amazing how you people put on this fake act about caring about racism and bigotry, it's really astonishing
This is very ironic coming from someone parroting Adrian Zenz's cynical atrocity propaganda.
This piqued my interest, since a lot of the Uyghur genocide narrative collapsed years ago to the point that even the journalists that were reporting it began walking it back.
Taking a look at who is currently reporting on "Uyghur genocide" in 2023, and it's all organisations like Voice of America, Radio Free Asia, United States Institute of Peace - basically (literal) US government propaganda agencies reporting on the US congress proceedings.
This is infact holocaust denial you are doing and it is a bad look.
Eternally mad the UN report sided with the tankies (the entire UN is tankies as well you see)
we care so much we checked the claim ! its bullshit
Least propagandized shitlib.
Not even the most devoted ideologue for the US state department would claim something this ludicrous. How do "leftists" arrive at this conclusion?
I thought this was a joke at first
Democracy ™️ brought to you by Yum brands Inc. Is infact everyone's enemy. The Chinese process is infact more democratic. When you look at the way funds are apportioned and how often the legislation passed reflects the will of the people it is undeniable they actually have more democratic input in their system than we do.
Meh, our democracy isn't even that threatening to China (Taiwan's is, it showcases a viable alternative to the CPC), they just had to leave us to our "contradictions", they'd keep booming and we'd just keep buying their stuff while we eat each other alive, if China is doing this, they gotta be really desperate to turn Europe fascist again.
Throwing chairs at each other in the Legislative Yuan over who gets to be America's most loyal running dog isn't seen by anyone thing China as a viable alternative to governance.
It's ok, Hu Jintao really didn't mind being dragged off the stage like an idiot in a country where face is everything. China does settle fistfights in private, which does set a good example for the populace, ngl.
PS: https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%9D%A2%E5%AD%90:
Aside from the racism of the "face culture" narrative, the guy is a dinosaur and notably not an official, just there as a matter of respect and legacy as a former President. We don't really know what happened, but those meetings are long and the dude is probably senile, so he was probably getting helped off the stage by aides at around the time they expected from the outset.
Lol Hu is 80 years young, just like our boy
Seriously, China caring enough for their elders that they don't want them shitting their pants on live television is apparently genocide now
In America no one cares about being embarrassed, that's only compatible with the Asiatic brainpan!
Toss Orientalism on your reading list:
Look, if I find it disrespectful and a scandal to watch that video, I assume that anybody who tends to value and respect the position, wisdom of their elders in an institution (more than us who throw them in nursing homes and ignore them forever) will find this pretty jarring for a well-functioning Chinese democracy.
But you guys are hilarious, finding offense where none was given, you're an amazing instance, I want you to know that, from the bottom of my heart.
I'd say your ignorance and racism are funny but na, nothing funny about you
Just pathetic
You're a child
Somos todos, caralho, se a nossa alma ainda não estiver morta.
Es portugues ou brasileiro? Tou memo a ver que deves ser um daqueles "comunistas" anti-comunista se fores portugues
哇，你真懂中国文化。只有我们中国人不喜欢丢脸，不像那些外国政治者。他们热爱在大家面前受困窘。
Muh face
Did that sound like a thing that wasn't wildly rascist when you wrote it? You can delete your comment. You simply can choose not to be rascist, it doesn't cost you anything.
"Democracy" Oligarchies most succesfull Psy Ops , Defend it , Think about all the Ressources longing for Freedom of Travel !