• Cherufe [he/him]
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    4 years ago

    Whats funny is that I remember seeing a lot that Trump was the lesser of two evils simply because Hillary was such a war hawk that she would start a number of wars

      • artangels [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        idk, trump has actually ramped up drones quite a bit. but then his coup in venezuela failed so thats good

        • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
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          4 years ago

          His brinksmanship with Iran should have put an end to the idea that Hillary would have been worse on imperialism. We traded acts of war with a country bigger and more developed than anyone we've fought since WWII and were hours from an attack that would escalate things beyond the point of no return.

          Libs suck, we get it, but it's embarrassing to keep bending over backwards to pretend Trump is kinda sorta OK on this point.

          • artangels [he/him]
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            4 years ago

            eh, im sympathetic to the idea that sometimes his incompetence and arrogance stops him from doing a bad thing, but yeah. i dont even see what the point of comparing how bad hillary would have been vs trump. we'll never know, other than that both are complete shit.

            • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
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              4 years ago

              The thing is, he only has to fuck up once. It's like giving someone who's blackout drunk a gun and telling them to shoot someone across the room. They might fuck up a lot and do no major damage, but you can't count on their incompetence forever. And when they're at that level of incompetence you can't count on them balking at something insane, like invading a country with 80 million people, many in major metro areas.

              Some generic Democratic president will still do coups and drone terrorism, but they generally don't have the type of ideological commitment to major wars conservatives have and they won't bungle their way into one like Trump.

              • artangels [he/him]
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                4 years ago

                well, i don't disagree, but i am sympathetic to people who think trump's incompetence has led to luck. but with the murder of solemani, i dunno, shit is really really bad so i wouldn't say i agree with it, but i am sympathetic.

          • CyborgMarx [any, any]
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            4 years ago

            The Syrian civil war would still be a high-intensity conflict right now if Clinton had won and American bombers would have joined Saudi bombers in Yemen, and god knows what fuckery she would get up to in Libya in the quest to defend her "legacy"

            • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
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              4 years ago

              Somewhere around 400,000-600,000 people have been killed in Syria. If an invasion of Iran killed about 10% of the pre-war population (as was the case with Iraq) we're looking at 8+ million deaths. It's an order of magnitude difference.

                • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
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                  4 years ago

                  Did Hillary escalate the Syrian Civil War?

                  You can't use a hypothetical action to argue Hillary would have been worse and then completely discount a hypothetical where Trump isn't talked out of war with Iran at the last possible minute.

                  • CyborgMarx [any, any]
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                    4 years ago

                    lol yes she did, she was literally Secretary of State, who do you think was funding the "moderate" rebels?

    • anonymous_ascendent [none/use name]
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      4 years ago

      Yeah. While Trump has authorized indiscriminate bombing in the places we already were, he hasn’t started any new conflicts and has scaled down several.

      If Hillary was President we would be at war with Iran and toppled Venezuela already

    • Comraragi [none/use name]
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      4 years ago

      The thing is Trump can easily be manipulated by both sides of an issue, by mainstream conservative/imperialist politics standards of course.

      Yes he was pushed to war with Iran, but he was also very easily manipulated by the media and general public opinion against it. He doesn't really care about geopolitics at all.

      I think the prevailing theory that is most likely to be correct is that Trump is definitely better(for leftist organization ambitions) than any competent fascist/neoliberal. Hillary can't be manipulated as easily and she is far more competent with actual experience working for the empire.

      That doesn't mean Trump is outright better, as I said we only managed to dodge a bullet with Iran because his ego wasn't convinced it would benefit him personally, but we also only got close to war with Iran because he is so easily influenced by these same neoliberals/warhawks. It goes both ways.

      Hillary would definitely be trying to keep things going BAU and she would have been competent about it. We are the frog inside the slowly boiling water. Hillary would be far more effective at stopping organized leftist movements. She would be fueling literally all "leftist" discontent straight into a void because everyone would just argue "well would you rather have Trump as president?".

      Biden is a problem, for many obvious reasons, one of them being we will have 4 years of "at least he isn't Trump".