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  • ashinadash [she/her]
    ·
    4 months ago

    Sonic games did not become collectathons, until HD Unleashed ruined it at least.......

    • gaystyleJoker [she/her]M
      ·
      4 months ago

      both sonic adventures had a scoring component based on the amount of rings you collected during the level as well as a mission mode in 2 that had you going back through the levels to collect things

      • ashinadash [she/her]
        ·
        4 months ago

        Ranks aren't exclusively ring-based though and rings aren't ever required for progression. You can collect stuff in the Adventure games, up to and including Emblems, but it's all a side thing, right? It helps you score better or supports side game stuff, but it's not the core focus. Core focus is Gotta Go Fast, whereas SM64 legit locks you out of stages without × amounts of stars.

        (I know I'm so hateful :3)

        • gaystyleJoker [she/her]M
          ·
          4 months ago

          like i said, red coin and 100 coin stars aren't required for completion. you need a total of 70 stars to complete the game. if you beat every level except for the coin stuff, you'd still come out with 75 stars, more than enough to get to the final stage

          • ashinadash [she/her]
            ·
            4 months ago

            No but stars are, so yeah you basically have to do a pretty obnoxious amount of collecting. 75 stars is like 60% of the total star count. The point of it is making number go up. Quick, imagine if Celeste had Strawberry Doors in front of each chapter and you had to get a certain amount of strawbs to advance? If you needed 100 out of 180 strawbs to advance.... fun?

            • gaystyleJoker [she/her]M
              ·
              4 months ago

              you can't really compare a 3d game made in 1992 with a 2010s 2d platformer though. for what it's worth, i think things can just be not to your taste without them being bad. like i really didn't enjoy celeste but i'm not gonna say it's a bad game because of the things i didn't like

              • ashinadash [she/her]
                ·
                4 months ago

                makima-huh what 3d game made in 1992, Wolfenstein 3D? But also why not? Both platformers. You can also put this collecting logic on Megaman X and it's the same problem.

                Fwiw I didn't enjoy Celeste either, mostly its last chapter is just cock n ball torture for no reason. I like the base game okay. And yeah I guess, but then every single 3D platformer was a Rareware game or a Mario 64 clone for like a decade after that. Making jumping games be about making number go up by collecting stuff reminds me of MMO design or lootgrinding, just busywork to make numbers go up, a fundamentally timewasting design. Missing the point that the joy of motion is what made platformers fun... Missing the forest for the trees..

                • gaystyleJoker [she/her]M
                  ·
                  4 months ago

                  oh sorry, 1996, but still. that game is almost enough to have been teen pregnant with a middle schooler. it's like i was saying earlier, 3d games and 2d games are fundamentally different and comparing them like it's apples to apples does both of them a disservice. 3d environments are much more detailed and require careful exploration sometimes and that's why you get small hints like trails of coins leading to areas out of the way.

                  for what it's worth, you can't really blame mary-oh 64 for every game after it copying it and just adding more shit to collect. that's kinda what i was getting at as well; there are only 3 categories of things to collect: regular coin, red coin, star. it also had some of the tighest controls a 3d platformer had in that era so i give it some grace

                  • ashinadash [she/her]
                    ·
                    4 months ago

                    3d games and 2d games are fundamentally different

                    Curuously though, this type of collection kleptomania was grafted directly onto Sonic in Unleashed and everyone hated it to death. There's nothing about being 3d that means focusing your game entirely around collecting garbage is a good idea. For example:

                    3d environments are much more detailed and require careful exploration sometimes and that's why you get small hints like trails of coins

                    Stuff like this is totally fine and I agree, it also doesn't explain why they had to lock you out of levels with star doors, telling you to screw off and go grab more trash?

                    you can't really blame mary-oh 64 for every game after it copying it and just adding more shit to collect.

                    It is the one that started it though, right? Weirdly its direct predecessor would be european micro platformers, like the Dizzy series or Flimbo's quest which require you to collect trash the same way. Most people don't love those, and yet when Mario 64 does it...? But the flood of mediocre 3D platformers padding their runtime comes right after SM64 came out emilie-shrug

                    And it does have tight controls, that's what's more confusing: Mario 64 would have made a good enough normal platformer because the moveset and movement are great, and yet they made it so that collecting refuse was the only point?