We've swung the pendulum too far to the other side. People are being too gentle and diplomatic. We've forgotten part of why bullying works. Some people need to be chased away from the discourse. We had to chase so many people away to get the community and the vibes we have here now.
People like that I posted here should not feel comfortable acting like they are right now. They should be bullied to the point of silence for the sake of those around them, an for the sake of themselves becoming a lurker and hopefully acculturated to the community they've just joined.
Feel free to bully me if I'm wrong.
Reddit bingo:
Uses debate terms incorrectly
Smug
Refuses to read and acts like that makes him the victor
Baseless accusations about his opponent's personal character
Cringe
Maybe you'll get crippling depression and doomerism if you keep winning the bingo!
Oh, you communists posted an entire wall of details well sourced analysis that names names and specific events which refutes my entire belief structure? SMDH literacy is such a communist scheme I am misusing a text to speech program to write this i have never comprehened a word in my life to protect me from the lies of 1984 no food big spoon tanks famine sparrows communism!
Importantly this was deployed in a reply to someone calling them out for completely ignoring a cited argument. The "strawman" here is saying something went over their head.
probably, unfortunately
Showis terminal, once you've succumbed to it you'll never recover.
I'm sure of it.
And why do these debatelords only ever reflexively invoke the same one or two fallacies all the time? Where's the love for equivocation? The non sequitur? The composition fallacy! Lord knows they have enough experience with that last one
Sorry thats an ad hominem, that's -5 epic baconrinos for you!
I used non-sequitor! Dude was trying to compare the situation in Ukraine to the Palestinian crisis, saying that if Russia was justified in invading Ukraine (which was not my arguement) then Israel was justified in occupying Palestine!
They of course rejected the idea that it was a non-sequitor and continued posting bizarre things.
Wait, didn't Palestine hold the area before (current) Israel? I'm terrible at modern history.
tbh when I saw them post that, I mostly just felt embarassed
like imagine posting that
Guilty. I have engaged too many people in good faith only to have my good faith thrown back in my face covered in poop and pee and things less definable.
Also I hate to sound like a lemmyworlder here but their latest reply to me had 5 upvotes within 2 minutes of being posted. I think the belief that we're manipulating votes has led some of these specimens to take preemptive last resorts
There's 100% something going with votes ever since a month or 2 ago, Yog started randomly getting ~10-20 more upvotes out of no where on random comments and posts, often time's in less than 5-10 minutes, it was especially strange when it would happen to one of his comments sandwiched between a comment he was replaying to and a comment replying to him, but it's very inconsistent it doesn't happen all the time and I haven't noticed any patterns to it, and then I noticed it happening to a few of my comments too, and I see suspicious vote behavior like that here and there now too, I suspect there's either someone testing voting bots to see how well lemmy instances can detect them, or it's just some strange lemmy bug that hasn't been reported yet.
I asked one of the lemmygrad admins to check these two comments of mine that I noticed, https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/1359803 https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/1361307 and see if they noticed any strange accounts upvoting them, but I never got a response
Every one of their comments has exactly 5 upvotes, it's so obvious and embarrassing lmao. Like watching someone shid and fard all over the floor while screaming "I'm not owned!"
I look forward to the day when I see "preemptive last resort" on the newest Hexbear iceberg
.I'm sure @WIIHAPPYFEW@hexbear.net is working on a "Hexbear federates" update of the iceberg already
Y-yup, comin along smoothly, folks, definitely not only getting around to it right this second
To make it even funnier, this dork has at least two other alts that they're using to do the exact same "Philosophy 101 infographic everything you say is a fallacy" shtick and upvote the other alt's posts - every comment they make immediately jumps up to +6 or +7 and rarely goes any higher.
If there's anyone who seriously needs to be dunked on it's them. If for no other reason than to frustrate them with an overwhelming number of comments.
whiskeypickle/bauhaus/adroidBalloon are confirmed alts, would not be surprised if there are more
I agree. Some of the disingenuous shit I've seen from other instances has been disgusting and they deserve to get some pushback. As long as it doesn't break Hexbears rules
Just say informal logical fallacies aren't real and ask them to prove to you that they're actual logical fallacies worth caring about. Even Wikipedia has this blurb:
All these nerds did was memorize the Wikipedia list on informal logical fallacies without understanding what informal logical fallacies are supposed to be. Appeal to authority is a good example. It's all well and good until it has the "it isn't appeal to authority if the source is an actual authority" clause. But therein lies the rub. Everyone appeals to what they believe to be an actual authority. Nobody appeals to the authority of who they believe to be an incompetent person. So, the informal logical fallacy called appeal to authority doesn't exist because no one is foolish enough to purposely appeal to a source that they themselves feel isn't an actual authority. I could go on. The vast majority of claims of ad hominem aren't actually ad hominem, but just generic insults. And even with actual ad hominem, ad hominem presupposes that there's no casual link between a person's idea and a person's action or character. You can see this with the type of ad hominem tu quoque. Tu quoque is just calling your opponent a hypocrite, but if one didn't separate one's thoughts from one's actions like some idealist liberal, then suddenly tu quoque isn't so fallacious. Why haven't your argument materialize in the real world, as demonstrated by you failing to live up to what you've just argued? Could it be that your argument is actually trash and you are completely full of shit?
formal fallacies also kind of aren't fully real either. at least within the confines of discourse, it's not like formal/deductive logic is hugely applicable to rhetoric anyway imo. i think just drawing upon fallacies in general is a bit pointless, most debate is centred around premise acceptability and not argument structure.
Would you say something about 'tone policing'? Rejecting tone policing can be quite handy to prevent 'civil' liberals from ignoring substance and shutting down a discussion. But as it's ultimately a rejection of a type of ad hominem and you're being quite persuasive about the flaws in such fallacies, I'm wondering what your view is.
Thats bait. I don't mind if you bully them but it is either on purpose or hopeless.
Wall behavior for sure.
Yes but paradoxically they're not a troll in the classic sense that uses bait. They're the most hooked-on-the-line person in that thread. It's just pure brainworms. I really do think it's for their own good that they be bullied into silence.
Yeah I agree but I haven't seen someone that obnoxious since I posted in r politics.
this user's been doing this since they fled to lemmy during the
exodus, they're a true believer trust me
Appeal to force first, appeal to force last, and never apologize for appealing to force. If their argument had any validity god would aid them in overthrowing us in mortal combat.
Do not ping users from other federated instances with intent to goad or mock.
Do not directly link to comments or posts of other federated instances on public posts with intent to goad or mock.
Looks like a boring nerd anyway who cares
The dunk tank is bad enough when it's just trudging through the twitter to find the worst tweet with like 3 likes but calling for backup because you can't handle one guy yourself is just kinda sad
If you really want to get down to it the people I'm putting in the dunk tank are the ones giving them too much patience. I made this post to make a point. Does it look like I need help? Would help make them give up any faster?
Yeah the more the merrier but don't make it sound like I came here with my tail between my legs. Jeez.
If you really want to get down to it the people I'm putting in the dunk tank are the ones giving them too much patience
Lol and you're dunking on this person for being a debate nerd, something something glass houses.
I'm tempted to just disengage here because I'm not quite understanding what your problem is with me and I'm just getting a lot of hostility.
Hexbear has operated like this since it was /r/Chapotraphouse. Calling people in to bully libs is one of the basic foundations of the site culture. Your complaint sounds very strange because this is how we've operated since the beggining.
"Personal army" doesn't apply to bullying libs. Bullying libs is what we do. The concept of "personal army" usually refers to someone outside a community, usually /b/, asking a community, usually /b/, to come support their private war.
The war in liberalism isn't private, it's one of the core things we do.
Hexbear has operated like this since it was /r/Chapotraphouse.
Yes, and it has always sucked. It sucked when it happened to the Zootopia bunny guy, it sucked when it happened to LiberalSocialist, and it sucks now. This has nothing to do with changing anyone's beliefs or using bullying to keep someone on track for a good faith discussion.
Calling people in to bully libs is one of the basic foundations of the site culture
And that's changing. We're not on Reddit anymore. Take it up with the admins
Your complaint sounds very strange because this is how we've operated since the beggining.
I have been willing to tolerate the very rare cases when it crosses into this territory, but now there are actual consequences. If we end up getting defederated with blahaj for this, it'd be 100% deserved, and tbh I'd consider deleting my account to move over there.
Just because people have always done it doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't change. Obviously, I'm not talking about bullying libs in general, just the lolcow shit.
I'm only here to dunk on libs. If you care about the site growing you must support dunking on libs. Just not this guy in particular because he seems legitimately unwell.
It also puts me in violation of rule 1 here.
https://hexbear.net/comment/3747811
Here's Dirt_Owl linking more directly as if to encourage a brigade than I ever did. You gonna give them shit too? You got a fucking backlog of posts in this comm to yell about. Remember to hydrate.
Here's Dirt_Owl linking more directly as if to encourage a brigade than I ever did.
Yeah I'm gonna have to appologize to you guys for that. Sorry. I'm not really sure what we are and aren't allowed to do here anymore, so I deleted it to be safe.
I agree that dorks deserve to be bullied tho. But I also agree that we might have to be careful? I'm confused lol.
Do we bully nerds or not? I agree with both of you in a way. Oh shit, I'm a centrist.
That may be true, but it's still nowhere near as sad as you concern trolling for this ebic redditeur clown on multiple posts
Do not ping users from other federated instances with intent to goad or mock. Do not directly link to comments or posts of other federated instances on public posts with intent to goad or mock.Are these rules somewhere on Hexbear? I can't find them in the code of conduct or the dunk tank rules.
OP just shout fallacy fallacy at them and they'll crumble into dust
bullying lemmy.ml users is complete fair game anyways. their admins are on our side
i love these comments, this was the best bit i have come across in a long time. i was laughing my ass off the whole thread. it is even better if it is real. there is so little self awareness. i love it.
I was dunking on this person but I found a weird comment of theirs on a thread about "what would you do if it was your last day alive". I think they are legitimately mentally unwell and we should stop dunking on him.
