I have some friends and family in my life and it's really hard to broach topics like climate change, COVID, and Gaza and what my government's response means for our lives presently and in the future.
I talk about the unusual weather and it's too early in the morning to bring up climate change. Can't talk about surges in COVID infections after dinner because it would ruin the evening.
I'm trying to make plans and take preventative care for safety, but it feels like nobody around me wants to deal with the reality happening around me.
I think I'm holding out hope that these people in my life will take these things seriously if they'll just see reason, but deep down I know they don't want to engage with these things either because they're scared or in denial, or still insulated from the worst of it.
It's scary. It feels unsafe being around them, and not just for the material reasons like not taking the same precautions with COVID. It's like how can I trust them to see danger if they can't even reckon with the current things happening? How can I have a relationship with people who are this indifferent.
I get trying to cope and trying to find enjoyment where there is little to have, but it's incredibly lonely knowing that this site is like the only space I have to voice my concerns.
If you have made progress in getting people in your life to see reason, what worked? Does just sitting down and laying out these things as a personal concern help?
If you haven't been able to reach people who are this resistant to real conversation, how did you cope with it? What did you do about it?
I'm not in a level of community that I thought I was and I could use some advice on how to move forward.
Loudly. I’m that meme where I promise myself I won’t get political again then 15 minutes in I’m wildly gesticulating and accusing them of revisionism and magical thinking. I did last night with my brother
Same, I kinda hate when I do it cause it monopolizes the conversation. I can usually keep it in unless I'm drunk thankfully
Flashing back to me drunkenly yelling about how Stalin saved the world from fascism at a New Year’s party
lol, my starting bid last night was Glory to the martyrs, Israel will lose
I don’t engage with people really except for online. If I’m ever talking to family or coworkers I just zone out, withdraw internally, and let the human puppet I call my body do its thing.
Well usually what happens to me is I wear my keffiyeh and then my unhinged parents will scream at me about le antisemetism completely unprompted even if I said nothing
I just went for a walk the other week with a relative and as we were just discussing things I again made the mistake of being myself and discussed things that I think about and think are important, like climate change and my actual work with paperless people.
After about 30 minutes they said "could we not always talk about something depressing". I said sure and went on to shut myself up and proceeded to discuss things like canning and cooking.
This person is super anxious and depressed most of the time, they think our world and the people in it are fucked. He thinks people are shit. He thinks I see hope in the world only because I am "naive and idealist". He thinks my sensitivity to justice is just my autism aka pathology. He is miserable and I am not. He has no interest in facing the world as it is and protects his cocoon of gaming and treats. This I do find depressing.
You are also right, it feels super unsafe being around these people. It's people like this that have given me and my partner covid twice and yelled at me for asking for some caution with it.
Depends. If it’s the people around me who aren’t my loved ones I don’t care to speak with them anyway and I don’t care what they think.
It’s situational with my loved ones. Typically I just mind my own business but when the heavy stuff comes out and I’m asked for my opinion directly or I hear someone say something incredibly wrong or moronic: they’re getting both barrels. I don’t care what their politics are. Some people ask more questions and are open to hearing more about what I have to say, some want nothing to do with me anymore (nor I them). Probably most just assume I’m crotchety and opinionated and won’t engage me in that way because they can’t be bothered.
a couple examples: my gf changed her mind from reactionary to more of a vaguely leftist tought. persistence and mainly patience did it. she is a reader so i introduced her some very light theory (bauman) when she was ready. then a good smart youtuber. dont be sectarian, keep it real.
i pulled an old friend a bit left too. i talked about his shitty job and climate change, and why these things are like this. and gave him a hopeful view of what can be. he noticed capitalism is crap and i presented the anticapitalist options. this happened over a few years. always keep it real.
each person is a little different but there are people who simply don't want to hear it because they are privileged, dont want to deal with it and so on. don't hide your opinion if you can (like if your job or living space doesnt depend on it) but don't waste time pushing things with them too hard until or even if they actually want to hear it.
your parents though? older relatives? yeah most old people nowadays are arrogant and will. not. hear. it. because they think themselves smarter than those damn youngns and they tied their group identity to that shitty opinion. rich people? much harder too, but we shoudnt need many of them anyway.
remember leftism isnt sponsored by big money. WE are the ones who have to do this work. you just have to have the sensitivity and patience to do this properly without driving people away. and DON'T feel like you have to change everyones minds immediatly or at all. people tend to change their minds slowly over time and you have their honest listening ears for only a small amount of it, or little of it at a time. sometimes they wont budge and thats okay too. keeping your loved ones is always more important.
edit:
thank for the updoots le kind gentlesiralso try not to get that mad at people for believing propaganda. its fucking powerful and most people are not at fault for it. dont take shit from fascists and trolls tho.You won't have many friends if you need them to agree with you about everything and be as adamant about said things.
I know some people will see this as abandoning principles, but I disagree. All my close friends know exactly where I stand and unless I'm drunk I won't go on political rants. For the ones who have known me long enough, they greatly appreciate it lol.
So long as nobody takes an issue with my politics or says something I find heinous, everybody gets along.
I think this is a more necessary approach than some people here realise. While I don't think anyone has an obligation to be friends with anyone, and I certainly don't think anyone is obligated to overlook horrible opinions, in the real world there is a very real need to find compromises to bridge the gap of communications with others.
Older people in my life are in denial about a lot of bad shit too, but one has to recognise they think like that for a reason. Typically they're scared to confront it. My advice in OPs situation is to find different ways to relay your needs and concern - Instead of "this is happening globally and has a billion effects we need to be worried about", maybe try more of a "I think this will affect me, most notably in this way, and I feel like I/we need to prepare in this way". If it's close friends/family, then by all means talk one-on-one and explain "This scares me, and I want to take it seriously".
IDK, I'm no expert. But OP, in my limited experience, I've had luck relating to family members "on their level", so to speak. Couch your desires and plans in terms and formats that they understand and are comfortable with, even if it's not totally correct or accurate. Most everyday people are very worried about their bubble of everyday understanding being popped, so the point is to gently extend their bubble of understanding in the right direction, by using terms they "get". This isn't about being condescending, this is about improving communication skills for both of your benefits.
And obviously, sometimes, that will all fail and people don't want to collaborate. In which case your response will anywhere on a spectrum of "never speak to them" to "humor them with lies", and that choice will be down to their actions and your preferences.
Generally, I bring up those uncomfortable topics with the people who I know are willing to discuss them in my life, though if someone mentions any trigger phrases such as "unseasonal weather" or "golly gee everyone seems to be getting sick, I wonder what it is", I go all-in.
I have yet to be fired, cut out of a will, or to lose a friend over this. I'm lucky in that most of the people I talk to about these things are "progressive" at worst, which means they'll usually agree with most of what I say, though they tend to balk at eg killing all landlords. Frankly the majority of people in my life are uninformed and seem to get engaged in those conversations because they learn something and it gets them thinking. The ones who don't tend to disengage and let me rant for a while, which is fine by me because it's quite cathartic.
All that said I don't have any relationships I'd really classify as "deep" so this probably won't work for everyone.
Well depends, with my family and especially my wife, I push it until they are genuinely uncomfortable then back off. A while later I see a shift in her opinion. Mostly I don't initiate the conversation either, it'll be something like an exhibit on the Siblings Scholl or a demonstration against Nazis organized by the local SPD and greens or something.
I push it until they are genuinely uncomfortable then back off.
Yes, I think this is usually the right approach. Force them to face the contradiction and cognitive dissonance, but don't shove their face in it. Let them work through it in their own time
All my friends are either libs who don’t care or don’t know what they’re caring about, family is qanon, laid off so don’t have any coworkers but they would be libs too I’m sure. But thank god my partner is a leftist too
At least in terms of Gaza, the IDF fascist paratroopers do a good job of making propaganda against themselves by literally filming their own war cimes, so I would start by showing them how vile and bloodthirsty the freikorps really are. Seriously, even the biggest chud probably will probably find it a little tasteless of making a joke out of a destroyed home by knocking on the barely standing door frame.
I honestly think leftist discourse as a whole needs to get out of its own head. The right does very well of employing tactics such as dog whistling and misdirection. We really need to invest a lot into our populism department, especially since we have blatant right wing propaganda, such as the manosphere and sigma bullshit, to deal with on a daily basis.
We need some action. Why not rent out a billboard of the aforementioned videos, with the headline being "THIS IS WHERE YOUR TAXPAYER MONEY IS GOING". We're also gonna need some young, charismatic speakers. Lenin didn't inspire the people by recording a bunch of video essays.
lenin was literally penning critiques of people in writing all the time, communists should be agitating whereever the people are looking. I think you could create great propoganda on youtube etc but youd need to be an actual well read communist and not a intellectually unserious grifter like almost every youtube "leftist". You see it all the time with people like second thought who have to make surface level videos so they can maintain a wide viewer base for the sake of profit. The best example of good leftist content i can remember was a channel called halim alrah, thats the introductory level communsists should be aiming for , not pulling punches but still approachable
i simply do not. 90% of my internal monologue is already too spicy for the normies so i'm used to keeping it to myself.
