I consider myself a marxist, but do not support either country. Lenin and Mao did some good things and I'll credit them where I believe it's due, but what China and the USSR eventually became is not something I can support. Based off what I've seen on this site it seems you're not allowed to be a marxist unless you also support these states. Is there some lesser known tendency of marxism that doesn't require support for these states?
What you're kind of alluding to is the concept of critical support. Socialism isn't an exact science, and we can learn from the actions of existing or previously existing socialist countries without 100% supporting or disavowing everything they did.
Like you said "Lenin and Mao did some good things and I’ll credit them where I believe it’s due, but what China and the USSR eventually became is not something I can support."
Support the good, be critical of the bad.
MLMs, Trots, "orthodox Marxists," democratic socialists (of the Bernstein variety). There are many flavours of revisionism and disavowing AES to choose from!
yeah that's true, I think they all share the quality that they are ok with AES "up to a point," but for many of the others it's basically when the revolutionaries win and take power wheras with MLMs it's different. For the record I tend to understand MLM = Gonzaloist.
I feel like this is a fairly common viewpoint, we just don't talk about it as such because we're wary of feeding CIA narratives, but I think in the right context you could get a lot of imaginary points posting that sentiment here.
nah, I've met plenty IRL. there's a sizeable fraction of them in DSA, ignoring the rest of the org and working on some useful projects. I find them insufferable anyway.
large in the sense that they make the news. but yeah, we haven't unified on any line and it's unlikely that we will for a bit yet.
As somebody who does support those countries, most of the leftist podcasts I listen to are ex-Trots and LeftComs who feel the way you do. Most of the media we encounter and social media on the western left desires to disavow AES. This site can be seen as a response to the dominant strains of Western Leftism, not an expression of the dominant thought. I would like to add:
A) the claim of Western Socialism being chauvinist, imperialist, petty bourgeois ideology is not an empty one (even though I actually really enjoy critically engaging with the Humanists, analysis of subjectivity won't save us without the ability to systematize its implications)
B) a huge reason for the popularity of Leninism and it's strains, especially in the global south, is its principled anti-imperialism. Im literally just starting to read it, but Walter Rodney's The Russian Revolution: A View From the Third World seems like a cool book that really goes into the importance of this Anti-imperialism and the benefits of AES for the Global South. I think there's a distinct reason that this site is all about Left Unity with a principled stance on Imperialism. Decolonial struggle should really be seen as the most integral point of intersection for the revolutionary Left in the Imperial Core, especially in America which is a Settler-Colonial state built on slavery where racial and class distinctions formed concomitantly.
You can be an annoying trot, an annoying Maoist, an annoying leftcom, an annoying anarchist (too many anarchist tendencies for me to remember).
Based off what I’ve seen on this site it seems you’re not allowed to be a marxist unless you also support these states. Is there some lesser known tendency of marxism that doesn’t require support for these states?
The cringe. Go help at a soup kitchen and log off.